i think the braves get alot more respect around baseball than we, as braves fans, think they do. it is obviously a storied franchise, and many of the best players to every put on a uniform played for the braves. i really do think that the braves franchise is viewed with alot of respect by people around baseball.
as far as hanson and jurrjens being a little off…the first start after the all star break is always a little weird for everyone. they will be back on their routine and back to normal in their next starts. im predicting a 5-2 week, but i think it will have more to do with the offense than it will the pitching. the O is figuring some things out, and we are going to some big time hitter’s parks.
DAP – Braves just ranked as the 3rd most popular team in baseball behind the Yanks and the Sox. Crowds might not be great in Atlanta, but they are still a national draw wherever they go. Not sure what my point is, but they certainly have a national imprint that is much larger than the small home crowds would indicate.
I will say that they had a nice showing this weekend against the Nats.
curt, im not sure if the braves are ever going to have the same type of fan turnout as the cubs, red sox, yankees phillies, ect. and its a bit unrealistic to expect them to. the communities the serve are just different. atlanta is very spread out, and its just a small part of “braves country”, when you get down to it.
anyways, i dont think attendance is a problem, anyway. the braves make up for some small crowds by having one of the bigger stadiums in baseball. so, when they do sell out, there is about 10,000 more fans in the place than there would be at a phillies sellout.
but as far as getting the “respect”, i dont think that attendance has anything to with with a team getting respect from around baseball. anyone think the Rays dont get respect?
also, i think fans of every team feel like their own guys dont get the cred they deserve at times. just part of being a fan. i believe most folks consider the braves as one of the top franchises in all of baseball.
#4 – nice to hear about our ranking. I think I mentioned here once that when I went back to CA for a high school reunion, all the (former) jocks were thrilled to hear I was in Atlanta and said that they watched the Braves on TBS as teenagers and learned to love the team that way. Cubbies, too, probably get that, thanks to WGN.
Do you guys think Lowe would even be in our postseason rotation? If not, then why not dump him for whatever prospects you can get? I really do believe that Minor or Teheran could come up and give us at least the same quality as a Lowe start. Of late, Lowe has been pretty bad, imo. He isn’t getting the same location and control he had last September and October and in April of this year.
Nate “Do you guys think Lowe would even be in our postseason rotation? If not, then why not dump him for whatever prospects you can get?”
if the playoffs started now, no he wouldnt. but remember he was pretty bad most of last year too, before going 5-0 with an ERA around 1.15 in september, when we made the playoffs by one game. the then pitched something like 6 no-hit innings in the game the braves were eventually eliminated in. point is, lowe pitched REALLY well down the stretch after sucking for 5 months, and without him we would have been on the outside looking in.
since we wont be setting the postseason rotation for another couple of months, im not ready to say we wont need his veteran presence in the playoffs.
i just have to make an announcement. Jason Heyward is no Jeff Francoeur. He is much much more talented. It’s amazing reading several blogs and message boards that all of a sudden people want to start Hinske over Heyward or send him down to AAA. People wake up. He is obviously hasn’t found his rhythm and is just in a funk. Remember Freeman was struggling too.
#14 Jason Heyward better than Jeff Francoeur? Long run Heyward..RIGHT NOW? Francoeur. How many assist does Heyward have?
I thought you guys were a little “wishy washy” on the trade talk. I think we need another everyday bat. Remember long ago when San Diego traded for a pitcher just so we would not get him? (Can’t remember what his name was). Not saying to trade the farm, but we are legit this year. More so that I can remember. Much more than this time last year. Get that extra bat to make us better!
I don’t think Heyward is a very good defensive player. Now, that doesn’t mean he’s not laid out for one or two balls that looked really great. But there are a few balls I think he could have gotten too were just over the wall — didn’t seem to put any effort into jumping up off of the ground to at least try. Doesn’t seem to get a very good jump from time-to-time.
#25 – Did you see the very start of the game with the shot of Heyward looking REALLY pissed in the dugout? Not sure what it means. Not that it means anything. But it was good to see some emotion out of him.
It’s fun hearing the teams we beat-up express their awe of the Braves. Jim Tracy, in his post-game comments: “arguably as good a staff as anyone in the national league”… “when you’re dealing with a staff of this magnitude…” “Against a pitching staff like this i give credit to the fact it was a game effort on our part.”
Bubdylan @ 37, i agree with you. You can feel more connected to the franchise by learning about those other teams. the braves museum helps with that, i think. i have a book called “101 reasons to love the braves”, and it has alot of really interesting tid bits in it.
the braves won thier first world series at home in fenway park. thats right, fenway was our home ballpark. how about that? i think that stuff is cool.
#37, I always like looking at the listed heights and weights of professional athletes from back then. Kind of a different game. It’s great history nonetheless. Maybe our guys can rattle off a finish like their 1914 version. Should we start calling Uggla Rabbit and McLouth Possum?
Was it a coincidence that he (Heyward) was upset on camera when they said that? (mentioning him being pulled from the lineup.) Was he upset with himself for not even moving to get away from the ball? Was he upset at Freddi?
#25, Isn’t that 5 in a row over the Rockies this year?
#35, Tracy speaks highly about all the teams that beat the Rockies; if the other team pitching is outstanding it explains a loss and lengthens his career.
Lowe maybe could duplicate his September performance but why take a chance? If opportunity knocks, trade him to the first team that will take his guaranteed salary and use the money to keep the young stars. If you get anything else, it is a bonus.
One area where Francoeur beats Heyward is in attitude and friendliness. At home or on the road, nobody smiles more, signs more autographs, and is friendlier than Frenchy. Will never forget the game in Colorado before he got traded when he took extra time after the National Anthem to pose for a picture and spend a momment with a special girl; this was after numerous autographs prior to that. No other Brave came near the fence. If and when, Heyward gets his head, body and game straightened out he will be the better player. Will he ever be a better man?
Phillies average attendence: 45,482. Braves: 28,602. Does anyone honestly believe that the revenue from 17,000 more a game doesn’t make a difference on what a team’s future expeditures and success will look like?
At last nights game, i estimate that 20% of the fans were for the Braves. In the 90′s, I am guessing that it was over half and yes, I was there. Obviously, the Rockies have now built their fan base and TBS no longer builds the “America’s team” franchise. Oh, for the good old days.
Latest quote from Fredi: “I’m not a big numbers guy”. So now we can add Math to the list of things that he’s not good at. Numbers are there for a reason — they don’t lie. I heard Steve say several times that “Fredi is not a smart baseball guy”. I think we need to make that statement more general.
Guys…on Chipper. I don’t think we NEED him for the run. Stay with me. If he was the healthy, producing Chipper of years ago…yes. But NEEDING a guy that we have no idea how healthy he is AND how long he can take the beating of the season. Chipper is great…if he’s in everyday playing condition. To think he’ll ever achieve that again is wishful thinking.
I would have liked to have seen the Michael Cuddyer & Omar Infante aquisitions an article talked about, but the Twins have published their intention to re-sign Cuddyer or let him walk if they can’t – NO TRADE by July 31…
What do you think about acquiring Luke Gregerson from the San Diego Padres? He does have a lousy ERA away from Petco, so that might be a concern… but he HAS to be a better option than Proctor… maybe it gives Fredi a four headed option at the end of games… then he can pitch four relievers for an inning each every game…
Francour might work too. Leaving home might have done him some good — clear his head and to get some of the pressure off to learn how to play in the bigs without all of the day-to-day pressure of being the home-town boy (even though Brian McCann hasn’t had any issues with it).
It is tough enough being a Braves fan here in Colorado as I only get the 3 or 4 games here and usually catch the Braves somewhere else a couple of times a year. Watch them on TV all the time but nothing beats live baseball for getting a feel for a team. The 3 games have shown a lot. Good and Bad. You all know this team is centered around the pitching but a championship team does need some hitting. It is one thing to get beat by Jimenez, it is another to get beat by tonights group. Without Chipper and McCann, there is little. Yes, Uggla and Freeman are earning respect; after that, nada. Can a team that carries Gearrin, Proctor, Lugo, Conrad, Gonzo, etc. go all the way? Add a weak hitting outfield of Heyward, McLouth and Schafer (Schafer does show hustle and promise) and you can expect results just like the last two nights; has a championship team ever had a weaker outfield? I did learn this week why the Braves don’t fill the house in Atlanta. Poor hitting, poor fielding (our high school boys would have played the ball better than Prado and one senior has a better arm than Heyward), poor managing and poor base running does not work well if you plan to win. Heyward is obviously carrying some sort of attitude that can be cancerous to a team; he has looked PO’d all week,doesn’t hustle and contributes little (doesn’t even look friendly to teammates during warmups). Several good ideas have come up on this site for possible trades; some better happen or a great opportunity will slip away; it is not often that a team can assemble 8 or 9 effective pitchers. One man’s observations. 113, u r right. Nobody walks someone to pitch to Cargo.
Sorry, each team has a different situation; making the Braves better is my concern. Bub, your past comments clearly are in the “don’t bash Wren” category so, sorry one sentence out of 20 offended you. Braves will need to rely on their bench as some starters are not doing that well. But the real point is that the Braves likely will have to make a few changes now and at the end of the year. Anyone willing to bet the Phillies won’t make some improvements? Bub, say hi to Wren for me. Maybe he can extend Lowe’s contract and renew McLouth’s.
On another note, it’s not so much that I don’t want to read Fredi’s post game comments, it’s that I don’t HAVE to read them. “We had some guys on, they made some plays, and we couldn’t get anything done.”
Oh! So that’s what happened. Thanks for clearing that up for me, Luna Lovegonzalez. (That was for you, “Vinnie.”)
It won’t be something flashy. Fredi seems to go out of his way to praise Schafer. They might pick up a backup type and add a righthander to the bullpen, but I will be shocked, shocked I say, if it is anything more than some tweak. They are still hanging on the Chipper and Moylan are coming back vein, and I think that is where they stay.
Carlos Beltran is not walking through that door. Hunter Pence is not walking through that door.
“Just no excuse. I should have stayed down and at least stopped that ball. It’s completely my fault.”
“Just one of those plays – I don’t want it to happen, but it happens sometimes, and it was one of those times that happens to lose the game. And I hope that this game is not going to cost us at the end of the year.”
“I take a lot of ground balls in batting practice. I don’t have any excuses. I have to make that play…. I had a real tough game today. I guess it’s going to be one of those nights where it’s going to be real hard to sleep.”
john j, my comment must have seemed more snarky than I intended. I’m not a big Wren apologist, though I defy you to find a GM who has done better to contend on a budget while keeping the farm together.
Actually, I’ve changed my mind on the tone I’d like to use here. Piss off, whiner.
I hadn’t really thought of it (because my name is not Anne S.), but it seems like we really miss Diaz around now. Bittersweet because on one hand he is killing it for the Pirates and the Pirates are atop the Central (both of which i sort of like, for him and for them), but on the other hand all of our trade talk shenanigans might be mooter if he was around.
Hamilton – my co-worker Gary is walking around the streets of Boston right now with a Braves cap on. He’s planning to see the Sox play tomorrow night…whoever they’re playing. If you see him, feel free to punch him in the face.
Oh, and thanks for the Diaz shout. I’m SO wearing my Diaz Braves jersey to the games next week. Mooty Diaz.
Kate, it sounds like the Braves answer to your question is no. It’s probably the smarter move in the long run. Most fans want a big, flashy acquisition, but from a managerial standpoint, I’m sure hanging onto Delgado and Vizcaino is the smarter move for the future of the organization. I think Prado, Schafer, and Heyward is your October outfield. Gomes or someone else of similar abilities is coming in to be our 4th outfielder. Gomes crushes lefties, so maybe he ends up being a right handed Eric Hinske.
I would love to see us get Adams from the Padres. Our bullpen would be so unbelievable.
Anne – I am so used to having Red Sox fans scream “Braves Suck” at me whenever I wear my colors, that the last thing I am going to do is add more hate. I would go up and give him a hug, but that would probably only validate the other thing that Red Sox fans say about Braves Fans (which shouldn’t be repeated here).
My son has a Braves hat that he wears with pride, and a five year old boy (wearing a Sox hat) said to him “why do you wear that? That’s stupid.” They start them young here.
(My son’s response was “because my dad does.” (wiping away tear) That’s my boy.)
john j – the Heyward stuff you’re perceiving is very troubling. And while I see it too, it seems so contradictory to everything you hear about the guy, his love of the Braves, his incredibly upright upbringing, the praise the folks like Hank and Bobby have heaped on him, on and on. Maybe if he’d just freaking hit .350 for a week he’d feel better.
On the matter of pitching to Wigginton or Gonzalez last night, that decision was made due to EOF. While I’m not sure I agree with it at all, Wigginton was like 3 for 4 with a homer in his career against EOF. Gonzalez is batting .239 against lefties. It was a “book” decision that backfired. Fredi makes some dubious decions, but that one wasn’t as glaring as it was made to be. That and the pitch was a meatball.
I know Alex Gonzalez plays great shortstop, but I cringe every time he comes to the plate! I swear 90% of his at bats are a hopeless ground ball, a pop up, or a strikeout….oh what could of been if only we still had Elvis Andrus…
Hot at the game here today. Heyward crushed one and compared to other days was messing around with teammates before game (mostly with his buddy); does he appear to by moody? As I recall, Heyward had 3 K’s though and when he misses, he misses large. Wish he could shorten up and control that swing with 2 strikes. His catch on the foul line was the old Heyward…..great!!! Does he follow this site? He and Prado can be the difference down the stretch.
Bub (128), we’ll look forward to your ongoing comments praising Wren. You always manage to sneak them in. Hopefully, you can contribute some other info or ideas also. Just picking apart others’ comments doesn’t add much.
No. If an AL team got him they would probably DH him a lot. It’s not really in Wren’s style to do a trade for a rental player. If the Braves acquire a LF or CF they really need to get someone who can fill that role for more than the final half of this season. There really are not any great options in our farm system.
B.J. Upton could be a real possibility. He was brought up last year, too. He is crazy talented, but he is also crazy.
Upton could be one of those guys who just needs a change of scenery. He is better than both McLouth and Schafer. It just seems bizarre to trade Yunel for character issues and essentially acquire a less talented player a year later with very similar issues.
“Once the Mets act on Beltran, they can listen more seriously to offers for some of their other players. The team, however, likely will proceed carefully. Club officials do not want to give up on the season entirely”
Anybody know who’s pitching for Gwinnet on Tuesday? I’ll be headed to Durham donning Braves’ emblems from head to toe. Ok…maybe head to belly button but if I had Braves shorts, socks and shoes I’d wear them too.
Bub, I know that you already mocked this up, but where do we put Beltran if we get him? Is this the lineup . . . .
What is the lineup when Chipper comes back?
I like them both, come to think of it. Not to count our chickens before they hatch, but if the Mets are willing to give us two months of Beltran (and maybe some $$ and a reliever) for Minor, I think we take it.
“Francoeur, 27, has appeared in the postseason twice and reached the World Series with the Texas Rangers last year. He has a .973 OPS against left-handed pitching in 2011, making him one of the most coveted right-handed hitters on the midseason trade market.”
“Heyward, second in the NL Rookie of the Year balloting last season, is batting only .225 with a .319 on-base percentage and .396 slugging average, but the Braves are reluctant to send him to the minors, sources say.”
Why the hell would we even think about sending Heyward to the minors. If we want to win the world series he needs to be on the team. This is supposed to be our stating right fielder for the next 18 years. Stick with him. We all know what kind of talent he has. Besides if we can have hope for Uggla when he has been hitting under .200 the whole season we can have hope for Jason.
Gotta say, I like the Minor-for-Beltran trade for us. even though we’d only have him for a short time, our stockpile of pitching us deep enough to absorb losing minor, even if it is to a division rival. I don’t think we’d be getting anything in addition to beltran, and if we can get a healthy switch-hitting OF for an unproven pitcher with good stuff but command issues, then I think you do it.
#185: Bub, what makes you say that about the organization and Minor?
I’ll admit that as the day has worn on, I’m getting all crazy for Beltran. He really would change our lineup dramatically (tho Ham, I don’t think he ever bats as high as 2, he’d be a 4, 5, 6 guy imo.)
I agree that I’d want a ML ready arm or a good prospect along with him. My other concern is that Minor is simply better than our 3 big prospects right now. And if something happens to one of our starters… and all for a 3 month rental … but he’d certainly bolster the offense … I’m a bit schizo about it all right now. But, it’s exciting as hell to be part of the conversation on all the shows.
I’m a Braves fan since ’55 and a Rockies fan, secondarily, since ’93. There isn’t much that upsets Rockies fans. They are used to losing after a 6 run lead and they are used to winning after being behind by 10. The disappoinment came early this year as we were sure that they were contenders. Didn’t see any crying. Next couple of days will determine if Rockies are sellers and a couple of bullpen guys could be available, Spillbourgs is a great 4th OF, Giambi probably to American league as DH; despite rumors, Jimenez stays (GM would be lynched). Wiggington or Ellis could help some team down the stretch. No more Braves/Rockies games this year so, I’ll stick to Braves talking on this site.
Bottom Line: Don’t trade a young future #2 lefthanded starter for a 34 year old outfielder who really can’t play centerfield anymore and can’t hit lefties and will only be here for 50 to 60 games. Not to mention he is an injury risk,. Worst case scenario is that we trade Minor for Beltran and two weeks latter Beltran gets hurt. This would be just a real dumb trade. I would maybe do Delgado, Hoover, outfield prospect for Beltran. Minor for Pence would also make sense.
Tell me why we traded a cheap young shortstop with a high ceiling who hits for average for a mid thirties shortstop who can’t get on base or hit. Oh yeah attitude problems. PLEASE! The workplace is full of people you don’t like. Deal with it. I still don’t understand this “team chemistry” thing. Just because I don’t like the guy playing second base I might make more errors and hit less? I know this is an old topic but I had to say something.
We should see more rumors like this during the weekend as, presumably, the talks get closer to completion. That being said, I can sense the reluctance of the Braves front office to trade away good players for two or three months worth of a veteran with an injury history, and no possibility of draft pick compensation. That’s not something they typically do — just give away prospects. If they’re trading away major prospects, then they want the player they’re acquiring to be under their control for more than a few months.
After this year center field will still be an area of need for the team, and they would have fewer prospects to go out and get another center fielder (I’m assuming that the front office is aware Jordan Schafer is probably not a long term solution).
Beltran could make a difference down the stretch and in the playoffs, but he just doesn’t seem like the kind of player the Braves would go after — in terms of amount they would have to give up and length of time they would have him. Still, I’d be excited if we got him. And if it’s straight up for Minor, I’m fine with that (mainly because I’m not that big on Minor).
Who is more at fault here? Fredi for using Proctor or Wren for keeping him on the roster, thus allowing Fredi to use Proctor? Personally, I blame Wren – sometimes you have to save people from themselves. How much data do we need on this experiment?
When Proctor comes in you know Fredi has given up on the game (proctor scoped us again). Martinez looks like a suitable replacement for Gearrin. A couple of timely hits early and Braves would have had a cushion and we likely would not have seen Proctor/Martinez.
A good example: Last Wednesday, Nicasio (Rockies) threw 53 pitches in first two innings. Instead of working the counts and getting to Rockies bullpen early, the Braves started swinging like crazy. Nicasio got 7 innings in and rockies got the win.
Thank God for the wild card. We are going to need it this year guys. The Phillies and the Red Sox are extremely, extremely good teams. They are even better than I thought they were going to be. They never lose.
I want Joe Morgan and Jon Miller back. I can’t listen to these haters anymore. Bobby Valentine just said Heyward should change the very swing that got him to the majors and almost won him the rookie of the year. Stupid..
Okay. I completely understand Fredi’s whole “Alex Gonzalez doesn’t have to hit because his defense is so good” talk. As stupid as this statement is, Gonzalez’s defense really is terrific, and so he does deserve a little bit of leeway with his bad offense.
But if this is the case, then under NO circumstance should Fredi be batting him 6th — behind 3 of this team’s hottest and most productive hitters. Batting Gonzalez behind Freeman, who is batting behind Uggla, who is behind McCann? That is asinine. I’d much rather see Wilkin Ramirez give Freeman some protection.
(Also, I’m watching this game on what is probably a 20-30 minute delay. Gonzalez just hit a 15-foot grounder to strand runners at 1st and 2nd in the top of the 6th.)
Also…I would just like to point out that the team the Cincinnati Reds are playing tonight are the Atlanta Braves.
Since 98% of the ESPN broadcasting has been centered around the Reds, the 4-team race in the NL Central, Dontrelle Willis’ comeback campaign, Barry Larkin’s upbringing, and Joey Votto’s toe fungus, I thought that this simple fact might have gotten easily overlooked.
Oh — and the 20-30 minute delay says that this week’s blog should lead with the Wayward Heyward after he busted that rally with the GIDP. ARRRRRGH.
This fixation of only using your closer at home in tie games dumbfounds me. Use your closer to extend your teams chances of getting a lead. Then let your other relievers close the game out. That way if they mess up, they were at least pitching with a cushion. However if they mess up when we are tied the game is over.
Man did I take some heat for calling that 3-4 trip.
Another stupid ballpark. If your team can’t compete in a major league ballpark, construct a better team. And if your fans can’t appreciate baseball without it all being about the homer, get better fans.
As soon as Brooksie struck out in the top of the 9th with a runner on 3rd, I knew the game was over and it wouldn’t be going to extra innings. Just didn’t think it would happen with one swing of the bat. Damn. What a lame way to lose the game.
Looking forward to this week’s podcast, which I’m guessing y’all are currently in the process of recording.
Can’t put too much stock into a 3-4 record in Colorado and Cincinnati since they’re such weird ballparks, just gotta move past it and look forward to being at home this week. We should’ve done better than 3-4, but oh well. We’ve already won the Wild Card, according the ESPN, so it doesn’t matter anyway.
This week — 4 against the Pirates and 3 against the Marlins. I say 5-2 this week — either a) 3-1 vs Pittsburgh and 2-1 vs FLA or b) 2-2 vs PIT and 3-0 vs FLA. I think the first one is more likely, but either way I think this is a winning week at the least.
Also…I’m looking forward to the Phillies finally losing a series this week — which’ll be vs the Giants.
Jim Bowden thinks we need Bourn from Houston.
Mike Minor, Jordan Schafer, J.J. Hoover
Gives the Braves a legitimate top-of-the-order game-changer
Led the NL in steals the last two years
Is leading the league again this year
Has a .350 OBP
Can run the ball down in center field with phenomenal range
Though he is a lefty, he hits decently against lefties.
vs. Left .278/.333/.389/.722
vs. Right .310/.368/.407/.775
Hits well on the road (does hit better in Houston)
Outside of Houston .293/.357/.366/.723
Has really heated in June and July (but was still better than our CF options from April and May):
Is Minor better than a #3 starter (as what I have read over and over)? I heard he was the Braves pick that year because they thought they could afford him (he was picked ahead of higher ranked players in the draft)…
I think a really good OPS guy would do the Braves a world of good (see post 226)
Once again, use your best pitcher when 1 run means a loss or when 1 run means a tie? When on the road, there is only one goal while not hitting: make the game last until you hit! Stop using a stastic to dictate which pitcher to use!!!!! Not to mention the top of the order being up. (banging head against wall)
Listening to Joe talk about how McLouth should have thrown to second and that “Alex was pointing to second”… Problem was, Alex was lined-up as a cutoff man for a throw to third and McLouth was looking at the ball in the air when Alex was “pointing”…