Show #157: The Braves Pitching Struggles on the Road
Trade deadline talk. The starting rotation. Chipper’s return. And the Wayward Heyward Meter
505 Responses to “Show #157: The Braves Pitching Struggles on the Road”
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July 29th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
So, how confident are we that we can resign Tommy and Jair if we are keeping all of those guys?
July 29th, 2011 at 12:28 pm
297 – Are you HIGH?? Please never become an MLB general manager.
281- Yeah it kind of reminds me of the people who don’t believe in climate change. How do you not value OBP?
Dream Lineup.
Prado
Chipper
McCann
Pence
Freeman
Uggla
Heyward
Gonzo
July 29th, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Nate, I’m with you on #300. If they indeed refuse to let go of even one Minor/Teheran/Delgado/Vizcaino, I’m thinking Frank envisions a rotation totally on the cheap. It’s not a terrible idea, assuming they spend the savings on bats over the next three winters. But that’s more than I’d assume.
July 29th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
The odds of Minor/Teheran/Delgado/Vizcaino all becoming good are very low. We need to take a risk and trade one of these guys while they are still coveted.
July 29th, 2011 at 12:42 pm
Walker, you could use that same logic to conclude we need to keep all four of them to ensure we have pitching.
That’s not really my stance, but I’m just saying.
July 29th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
See #267 for my thoughts on the pitching. The Braves love to spend money on starting pitching. I think they could keep both.
Prospects. In one hand you have Elvis Andrus, in the other Andy Marte. You hold on to the one guy and trade the other and who knows what will happen. Except we now know. See also “George Lombard.”
I did read something this morning entitled the 50 worst trades of all time. Braves made it in a few times. On the good – Fred McGriff for 3 useless prospects, Smoltz for Doyle Alexander, but #7 was the fan favorite. The Tex deal.
July 29th, 2011 at 12:54 pm
#302, Save money on the rotation, spend on bats. Eventually, they will have to pay Prado, Freeman, and Heyward more than they make right now. Another contract for McCann is down the road, too. Also, this doesn’t rule out trades of these guys in the future when they have a better idea of what they have, but the reports on the Braves feelings about those 4 guys leads me to believe that all 4 are projected to be in Atlanta for a significant amount of time. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see Vizcaino in a Medlen type role where he could start or come out of the bullpen.
July 29th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
If the Twitterverse is to be believed, the Astros don’t like the Phillies’ prospects that much, including Brown, and Pence is the Braves’ for the taking for no more than Minor + lesser prospects. Now, if they don’t do that, that’s just lame.
July 29th, 2011 at 12:57 pm
Also, does hanging onto all of these guys mean we are trading Lowe before his contract runs out? Right now, our entire rotation will be back next season, and our AAA rotation would be Teheran/Minor/Vizcaino/Delgado, unless Delgado isn’t promoted and Vizcaino is demoted.
July 29th, 2011 at 12:58 pm
Haha, trade deadline…
July 29th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
“Also, this doesn’t rule out trades of these guys in the future when they have a better idea of what they have,”
Well put, Nate.
July 29th, 2011 at 1:01 pm
Bub, it looks like the organization actually really likes your boy Minor
July 29th, 2011 at 1:02 pm
@298: Guess I never really put that “in numbers” like you do. I just see Heyward being a bust. Of course I don’t want him to, but he will NEVER live up to expectations. Remember according to all the hype he got in spring training hitting cars in the parking lot, he was supposed to be a “power hitter” who hit for average. So far he has not proved that. Plus, (as the guys have discussed on the show) there is SOMETHING about his attitude and thought process that bothers me……
BTW…. “Frigatedoc” comes from that I am a retired US Navy Chief Hospital Corpsman who served on a Frigate and was the “Doc” on the ship.
@301: No I am NOT high and you don’t have to worry about me becoming a MLB General Manager. It would be just like working in the medical field…..you can’t make everyone happy.
July 29th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
@312 Thank you for your service. However, Heyward for Pence? cmon man
July 29th, 2011 at 1:08 pm
#308 – too true. If it will really take Minor plus a lower level prospect, you’ve got to do it.
And watching Twitter is a freaking emotional roller coaster ride today. I need to take breaks.
Have you all seen the 10 year girl with cancer singing the National Anthem at the Ted last night? Amazing stuff: http://atmlb.com/mOQu4Q
July 29th, 2011 at 1:14 pm
Frigatedoc, Heyward may be a bust, but it would be a huge risk, with our budget constraints, to let go of the chance he reaches even 60% or so of his potential, and especially in exchange for an 8-10 million dollar player with a high BABIP and low (for the money) OBP.
Heyward sees the strike zone too well for me to buy into his bustdom just yet. That one skill covers a lot of sins, and I think his chances of recovery are pretty decent.
July 29th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
@313: Thank you…
As crazy as it sounds though I guess I just want to win NOW. Pence just seems like a good fit for us and could be permanent. Look how consistent his numbers are. Remember how good Frenchy started out? The pitchers figured out how to pitch to him and he never ajusted. Guys like Mccann can hit just about any pitch thrown to him.
If we get a guy like Pence it makes us better. WHEN we get all of our “guys” back I truly believe we are just as good as any other team out there.
Plus I don’t want the Phillies to get him and look in our hands (Braves) and realize that all we got was Wil Nieves for a dollar….. I can see the corny vacation T-shirts now..”Giants got Beltran, Phillies got Pence, all we got was Wil Nieves for a dollar.”
July 29th, 2011 at 1:19 pm
I just want to see one year of Heyward fully healthy. I guarantee .280 25HR 100 RBI High OBP
July 29th, 2011 at 1:27 pm
Not if he can’t hit leftys….. remember Klesko? He could hit a ball from any right hand pitcher 600 feet…. Throw in a lefty and it was like kryptonite.
AGAIN, I WANT Heyward to succeed!
July 29th, 2011 at 1:35 pm
In Klesko’s rookie year (#3 in ROY race), he OPS’d an awful .680 against lefties, a full .250 points lower than his OPS against RHP.
By contrast, Heyward OPS’d .755 against lefties in his rookie year, a significant, but not debilitating .140 points lower than his OPS against RHP.
Ryan Howard’s career OPS against LHP is .752, and I don’t think anyone would argue that his split deficiency has rendered him a bust.
July 29th, 2011 at 1:36 pm
New name to watch- Marlon Byrd. Right handed centerfielder that would come cheaper than Pence.
July 29th, 2011 at 1:37 pm
Yes to Byrd. Get him.
July 29th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
I don’t get the Jason Heyward hate. There’s a ton of it over at the DOB blog (granted, most people at the DOB hate everything, including oxygen, Gandhi, and lobster tail), but it surprises me still.
Heyward will turn 22 in August. How many guy’s even make the majors at 22? And we’re seriously talking about him potentially being a bust?
As a 20-year-old rookie, Heyward made the All-star team and put up an OPS of .849. Hunter Pence has done better than that only once in his career. It was in less than 500 plate appearances in Pence’s first season. At every stop in his career, Heyward has raked. In four seasons in the minors, he compiled a .317/.390/.507 batting line. He’s had a tough season, hampered by injuries, which are the only thing that could ever keep him from being a complete stud for the Braves (hopefully) for the next 15-20 years.
And I find it hard to believe that, as fans, we can gather much about Heyward’s attitude or thought process from a handful of quotes and camera shots of the dugout. I don’t mean for this to be pointed at you, Doc. It’s more of a general rant that I should probably be posting over at DOB – only I’m afraid if I post there I’ll get death threats.
July 29th, 2011 at 1:43 pm
Eric I completely Agree. Great Post
July 29th, 2011 at 1:48 pm
Two high points for me today and I’m stressed out at work and stressed out about the Bravos:
T-shirts now..”Giants got Beltran, Phillies got Pence, all we got was Wil Nieves for a dollar.”
AND
I don’t get the Jason Heyward hate. There’s a ton of it over at the DOB blog (granted, most people at the DOB hate everything, including oxygen, Gandhi, and lobster tail). And Eric, seriously on the lobster tail. How does one not like lobster?!?!?!