Show #157: The Braves Pitching Struggles on the Road
Trade deadline talk. The starting rotation. Chipper’s return. And the Wayward Heyward Meter
505 Responses to “Show #157: The Braves Pitching Struggles on the Road”
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July 28th, 2011 at 8:27 am
197 – agreed. Standing pat is not the right move this season — not when Heyward’s struggling and McLouth and Gonzalez can’t be relied upon to produce at any extended length. The latter two may have had decent-to-good weeks (yes, I include Gonzo in there because of his series in Cincinnati), but I don’t expect either of them to keep it up for any length of time. And we must get another reliever to help with O’Ventbrel. Linebrink’s having a nice season, and so is Sherrill, but some help is sorely needed.
Willingham is a nice bat, though he’s having a down year and his career second-half numbers are worse than his first-half (.270/.372/.482 first half vs. .252/.350/.452 second half). Also, he’s never played CF in his major league career.
Carlos Quentin would be great, but again — no CF in his career. His second half numbers are better than first half: .263/.355/.507 second half vs .248/.345/.483 first half. Might cost a bit, but perhaps we could get away with giving up Oberholtzer and Spruill. Kinda doubt it though.
I don’t want Ryan Ludwick, at all. 1st/2nd half numbers are nearly identical, and not too great. Perhaps he could be a case of a change of scenery, getting away from a team that has nothing to play for to going for a team with World Series aspirations — but he’s had one good season in his career (2008), with the rest being very mediocre.
Some moves I’d like to see the Braves make:
- DFA Lugo and Proctor
- Trade for Jamey Carroll
- Trade for Tyler Clippard
- Trade for Quentin
July 28th, 2011 at 8:27 am
I wonder if its the Tex deal that still hangs over their heads? I wonder if that trade has so scared/scarred the front office that they simply aren’t willing to pull the trigger. Or if this all comes back to money and they just don’t want to shed some cheap long term pieces for a rental that they would have to pay. Giants are picking up $4mm on Beltran on top of trading their #1 pitching prospect.
DOB was on with 790 yesterday midday and said that the payroll is not a Liberty Media deal, it is strictly Terry McGuirk. Which pisses me off to no end. I hope the very, very first move a new owner makes is to fire him immediately.
July 28th, 2011 at 8:40 am
@201
Of course the deal still hangs over their heads… The fact that it is mentioned on a board like this EVERY WEEK tends to show that…
July 28th, 2011 at 8:41 am
Nice article on Freddie, by the way:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6803748/atlanta-braves-rookie-freddie-freeman-showing-belongs-bigs
July 28th, 2011 at 8:43 am
@200
I will go with all your moves, just exchange Bourn for Quentin…
July 28th, 2011 at 8:44 am
See 162
Make your case for Quentin…
July 28th, 2011 at 8:46 am
Listening to this week’s podcast. Whichever one of you went to the hipster wedding where they were walking down the aisle to Mumford and Sons…those guys have got to be the most overrated band in music right now.
July 28th, 2011 at 9:06 am
205:
Bourn pros — everything you named
Bourn cons — he gives us what Schafer gives us, and he’s a left-handed bat
From what I’ve heard, Braves aren’t interested in Bourn — seems like they’ve moved past him
Quentin
Pros: we’d have him this season and next
strong second-half numbers
he’s a slugger — 20 hr, 62 rbi, 26 doubles, .262/.353/.510 (.863 OPS), low K totals, low GIDP totals
I have no idea if we could, but I think we could get him without giving up one of our 4 top pitching prospects
Cons: zero MLB experience in CF
low walk total
July 28th, 2011 at 10:17 am
My take on ownership and spending:
Liberty Media IS always part of the thinking process. They let Braves management do their job but they ask for a certain dollar profit returned to the parent company. Yes, Braves’ management could spend like crazy in hopes that attendence and and advertising revenue grows so they can deliver the profit number. Or, they can be more conservative and provide a decent product to the fans without sticking their neck out too far. If your job was on the line which would you do?
Also, if you were in Braves management, would you complain about the parent company tying your hands?
Additional problem on the revenue is Atlanta fans don’t pack the stadium even in the good years (Not even with a playoff game).
Maybe there will be new owners in the future that want to win and are willing to take some risk. Then, if they spend and build the team, the fans will come!!
July 28th, 2011 at 10:39 am
Apologies for the gloom and doom, but it was inspired by 38 innings of the most frustrating baseball I have ever watched in a relatively short time period. The positives are that David Ross is clutch and Martinez looked great, especially the changeup.
I think the Mac injury has me in complete freak out mode because you never know how long those things will take. Plus if he does come back, how healed will he actually be, and what toll will that take on his offensive production? We can make the postseason as is, and that might be enough to meet Wren’s expectations for the year. I guess we’ll find out.
I don’t see the con to giving up Mike Minor. I personally think the other 3 are better, and I think Medlen, Beachy, JJ, and Hanson are better. I would take Quentin in a second, but it seems strange that the White Sox would let him go. He hits well with men on base, and is a good right handed bat for the middle of the order. Jamey Carroll would be a solid piece for our bench. Reed Johnson would be a nice addition to the outfield mix. Clippard would make our bullpen beyond insane. Bourn would be an upgrade at the top of the order and in CF. There are still a lot of ways to improve this team.
Our lineup will never be healthy.
July 28th, 2011 at 10:39 am
John J, i think fans coming is so much more than even a product on the field right now. There just isn’t a buzz about the Braves like there was in the past. For us die hards, we are in it win or lose. But I listen to 790 every morning and the time they dedicate to the Braves compared to football in particular is glaring. I think if you have an owner, even if it isn’t someone splashy but just a face, it will help to bring some people into the fold. You want that one person to be accountable and to be the one you believe has your back as a fan. The reason the Trashers aren’t here anymore isn’t a fan problem, it’s an ownership and perception problem.
I don’t want us to fall into this conversation again, though. It’s a hole that we all know we are stuck in, regardless of your take on it. These are the owners we have.
MIM, I don’t think FW is reading the chat boards and blogs about the fan’s feeling on the Tex trade. My point was that you have to move on as a GM. You can’t let that one trade dictate what you do forever. And if that is what holds you back now, you will never get anywhere.
July 28th, 2011 at 10:42 am
On Tuesday night Chip and Joe pointed out that the Braves are seeing more lefties than anybody else. Our secret is out.
July 28th, 2011 at 10:53 am
Giants Offense: Adding to the panic is the fact that the Giants added Beltran to this list of Brave Killers: Ross, Rowand, Torres, Huff, Sandoval, Fontenot. These are the guys who can look terrible for 2 ABs, and then rip a 2 run double in the 7th.
Giants Pitching: We didn’t hit it last October, and they always seem to frustrate our guys. They have 2 lefties in the pen. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them add another.
Add home field advantage for them, and I’m already dreading that series.
July 28th, 2011 at 10:59 am
@207
We will have to agree to disagree on your “Bourn cons” that “he give us what Schafer give us”…
Schafer – On DL
Bourn – Playing
Schafer – Sits against tough lefthanders (vs. LH – .190/.254/.241/.495)
Bourn – Plays every day (vs. LH .284/.339/.394/.733 – his BA vs. LH is higher than Schafer’s OBP vs. LH)
Schafer – vs. RH .261/.329/.348/.677
Bourn – vs. RH .308/.367/.407/.774
Schafer – June & July: 14SB – 2CS – overall 15SB – 4CS
Bourn – June & July: 18SB – 4CS – overall 38SB – 7CS
Schafer – post All Star .296/.424/.333/.757
Bourn – post All Star .404/.426/.462/.888
Quentin vs. Bourn
Quentin – vs. LH .275/.388/.525/.913
Bourn – vs. LH .284/.339/.394/.733
Quentin – vs. RH .258/.341/.506/.847
Bourn – vs. RH .308/.367/.407/.774
Quentin – post All Star – .341/.370/.568/.938
Bourn – post All Star .404/.426/.462/.888
Qunetin – Never played CF in a ML game, so someone is going to have to play out of position
Bourn – Played nothing but CF for the past four years – has exp in RF & LF
Qunetin – “he’s a slugger” – we have “sluggers”
Bourn – he is a “prototypical lead-off man”, gets on base, steals bases, etc. – we don’t have that
Quentin probably won’t cost as much as Bourn – both a positive and negative… If Quentin costs less than Bourn is he less valuable than Bourn…
Which is tougher to find, a slugging RF or a quality hitting, speedy, CF, lead-off guy?
July 28th, 2011 at 11:02 am
Oh-By-The-Way:
Quentin factoid:
14 of his 20 home runs on the season have come against right-handed pitchers, as have 84 of his career 117…
July 28th, 2011 at 11:10 am
@207
” Quentin Pros: we’d have him this season and next”
He is Arb Elig in 2012, just like Bourn…
July 28th, 2011 at 11:54 am
Ryan Ludwick and Josh Willingham. Now these names feel more Brave-like. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Ludwick/RP package with the Pads (not Adams or Bell).
How are we still talking to the Astros about Pence? Do you think they’re kicking around the idea of a Delgado/Minor package?
July 28th, 2011 at 12:18 pm
FYI:
Gerry Fraley of the Dallas Morning News says Neftali Feliz is becoming a serious concern due to his diminished velocity. “I don’t know if he’s hurt. He’s not the same pitcher this year; he’s not blowing away hitters,” Fraley writes.
July 28th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
MIM, I found this. (Thank god we traded him, right)
When Ron Washington talked about reinforcements, he could have been talking about his current roster. [Washington] questioned Neftali Feliz’s “fire” on Wednesday, perhaps hoping it would light one under the feet of the Rangers closer. “I’d like to see more,” Washington said. “When he comes in the game, I want to feel like it’s do or die. I try to tell him all the time how important those three outs are. I just don’t see that sense of urgency.” Speaking through interpreter Eleno Ornelas, the Rangers’ Spanish language broadcaster, Feliz said he is not lacking “fire. “Last year I was more nervous,” he said. “Now, I feel more relaxed. I know what I’m doing out there.” Feliz blew a save in Tuesday’s 9-8 loss to Minnesota, allowing a pair of runs in the ninth.
July 28th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
@210
I agree. I don’t think FW reads here… I was just using “locally to project globally” so to speak.
There is usally a mention of it in trade articles every year.
Prospects seem to be more valued than maybe they should be and the team “mortgaging the futrue” seems to come up a lot…
July 28th, 2011 at 12:24 pm
@218
Think he still want to be a starter?
July 28th, 2011 at 12:26 pm
@216
I concurr. That type of trade has be FW’s modus operendi so far…
July 28th, 2011 at 12:34 pm
221, Dan Uggla says hello.
July 28th, 2011 at 12:52 pm
@222
OK.
I concurr. That type of trade has been FW’s modus operendi so far AT THE TRADE DEADLINE SINCE TEX…
July 28th, 2011 at 12:59 pm
Wren didn’t trade for Tex.