July 25, 2011

Show #157: The Braves Pitching Struggles on the Road

Trade deadline talk. The starting rotation. Chipper’s return. And the Wayward Heyward Meter

 

 

505 Responses to “Show #157: The Braves Pitching Struggles on the Road”

  1. 1
    David Says:

    “Well Jason can’t hit into a double play now.” — Chip Caray with Heyward batting with the bases empty and 2 out in the 5th after Heyward K’d into a DP and then lined out into one.

    With that, Chip just gained about 1,000 announcer points in my book.

  2. 2
    ham Says:

    Just to beat all y’all to the punch, I was completely wrong about my recollection of Upton during the 2008 WS. I wish I had an excuse, but I really don’t. Just wanted to get that out of the way.

    Also, what is with this recent trend where we out hit the opponent by a factor of 2 but still can’t score more runs?

  3. 3
    Todd Says:

    cool

  4. 4
    Curt Says:

    The unwritten law that bases loaded and 1 out and due up is McLouth and Gonzalez

  5. 5
    David Says:

    I would boo Alex Gonzalez, but he has a signed excuse from his manager saying that he doesn’t have to hit.

  6. 6
    Nate Says:

    You could literally pitch around our 5 and 6 hitters all the time.

  7. 7
    David Says:

    According to Fredi, that play that Gonzalez just made completely negated the K with bases loaded.

  8. 8
    Curt Says:

    his bat is now deeply outweighing his glove

  9. 9
    QC Bravo Says:

    Actually, AGonz is the one guy who does get a pass on the hitting – JJ, et al have results better than the actual pitching b/c the defense is so good. The issue is not the light hitting, good fielding shortstop – its the light hitting everything else.

  10. 10
    Curt Says:

    Bravo, I have to disagree. The damage he is causing with his bad is crippling to this team. His 4-40 with RISP at least cancels out his defense, if not supersedes it. He’s awful. And they are all non-productive outs to boot. Strike outs and pop ups. The fact that this franchise had Elvis Andrus and Yunel Escobar and we are stuck with Alex Gonzalez is a tragedy, and incredibly short sighted by the front office. I don’t care about his defense anymore. He has to contribute with his bat for us to have any shot.

  11. 11
    Curt Says:

    “Alex Gonzalez struck out to end the second, fourth and sixth innings, stranding six runners including three in scoring position. He struck out with runners on the corners in the second and with bases loaded in the sixth, making him 4-for-41 with runners in scoring position and two outs.

    The veteran shortstop has driven in five of the 56 runners he’s had in scoring position in those at-bats.”

  12. 12
    Eric Says:

    #1 – And that puts Chip at -1,543,345 announcer points.

    #10 – It’s amazing how awful Gonzalez’s ABs are, too. His hands fly off the bat, his back foot flails around, he falls across the plate. He just doesn’t look like a big league hitter right now.

  13. 13
    Anne Says:

    And what’s this about Chipper pulling a quad? Agony.

  14. 14
    Steve Says:

    It was a brutal game last night. And the crowd just deflated every time Gonzo came up to bat. Everyone knew what was going to happen – and then it did. And Gonzo’s body language is not instilling any confidence either.

    How did the Pirates starter look on TV? It was amazing how many swings and misses there were the Braves. And striking out looking. Was he that good? The pitches, from my vantage point, did not look overly impressive.

  15. 15
    Curt Says:

    Steve, that last strike out he had, with the bases loaded, even he looked like he knew it was coming. You have guys like Heyward, who look awful, but he ropes that one which of course ends up in a double play. But Gonzalez is lost. He has no shot.

    It seemed a case of the Braves flailing away again. He looked ok at best. Eric sent me a stat, which I will now steal, that the Pirates pitcher had 2+ walks in every start this season. 0 last night. You had 8 hits against him in 5 1/3 and scored 0 runs. Negated all by the 9 Ks, which I believe was a season high for him. And other than McCann (maybe Schafer) that was our starting team last night.

    Who knows how the game changes if McLouth makes the proper play in the 2nd and Hudson gets out of it without giving up a run there. They had 3 walks, all scored. A very frustrating start to this homestand after a pretty forgettable road trip. AZ now 3.5 back.

  16. 16
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    I was too slow…

    I wanted to suggest:

    Demurred Heyward

    Demurred: Raise doubts or objections or show reluctance

  17. 17
    Leah Says:

    How sad that we’re comparing Heyward to Frenchy. Today feels hopeless.

  18. 18
    Anonymous Says:

    3-2-9-6-2-3-1. These are the runs scored by the Braves in last 7 games. Guess which two they won? If these bats don’t wake up, the WC lead will continue to shrink; anyone, who thinks it is a lock, is kidding themselves. Pitching is not their problem as every team has a couple of crappy pitchers. You just need a manager who uses the crappy pitchers in the games that are basically/likely lost. NOT in games you are still in. Braves need to find a couple of bats this week! Even a couple of strong bench players would be good. Heyward has more than a Sophmore jinx and Gonzo swings like a high school kid looking at his first curveball. Yunel: 109 hits, .305 ba, .384 obp; maybe the cancer on the Braves is the GM.

  19. 19
    john j Says:

    Sorry, #18 was me.

    By the way, Gonzo sucks and so does Wren. Wren gets way too much credit for the farm system and not enough blame for his mistakes.

  20. 20
    Nate Says:

    Said it when it happened, the Yunel trade was a bad, bad, bad move.

  21. 21
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @20

    Only IF Yunel would have done it here (which I don’t think he would have).

  22. 22
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    What about aquiring Koji Uehara?

  23. 23
    David Says:

    Buster Olney pointed out something that I’ve been saying: that even if we do trade Minor or Delgado to get Beltran, we’ll still have very deep pitching.

    But the one thing that’s nagging me about Beltran — if we trade for him, where does he play? If playing CF is a big risk for him, or it turns out he’s not able to be out there everyday, then what? Surely a platoon with Heyward is not the way to use a guy like Beltran.

  24. 24
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Chipper Jones HAS TO BE the ONLY player in MLB history to have a stollen base 2 weeks post meniscus repair…..

    AND he has his own hunting show.

    Chipper has earned a permanent “man card.”

  25. 25
    Curt Says:

    MIM: What?

    His stats as a Brave:

    ATL (4 yrs): G – 446, AB – 1622, R – 242, H – 472, 2B – 87, 3B – 4, HR – 29, RBI – 183, .291 .368 .403 .771

    Top-6 ROY, Top-20 MVP

    He had one bad 1/3 of a season and was gone. And those stats are included.

    You wouldn’t want Yunel Escobar batting 6th or 7th in this lineup right now? 2nd behind Prado? You’re crazy.

    Prado
    Escobar
    Jones
    McCann
    Uggla
    Freeman
    Heyward
    Schafer
    Pitcher

    Yes, please

  26. 26
    Curt Says:

    Foul

    “With the looming deadline comes speculation that the Braves might deal for a right-handed bat or a reliever. [Chipper Jones] said he sees the Braves acquiring bullpen help. He is just fine with the everyday lineup as is. “I don’t have a problem standing pat,” Jones said. “I think we have a really good ballclub. Obviously any team would love an injection of new blood, especially top-notch quality. To be honest, I don’t see where we are going to go out and better the ballclub everyday lineup-wise. You say what you want about the [Carlos] Beltrans and the [Hunter] Pences and the [Ryan] Ludwicks, people like that, but everybody in our lineup contributes to our success each and every day.”

    Read more: http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/298614-chipper-doesnt-see-how-beltran-helps-braves?xid=cnnbin&hpt=hp_bn10#ixzz1TEaS2WBV

  27. 27
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @25

    Certainly I would like to have Yunel batting 6th or 7th in this lineup right now… as long as he was hitting the way he is hitting right now for Toronto…

    But not if he continued hitting as he was hitting (and playing… and behaving (or not behaving)… before he was shipping to Toronto… and there was NOTHING that was pointing toward him EVER playing that way in Atlanta… He was on a downward slide showing no signs of pulling himself out of it… he had lost the confidence of his manager and his teammates…

    This was TRULY a case of him being the proverbial “change of scenery” guy (regardless of the reasons for it).

    Unfortunately it seems in baseball, you just never know how players will react… Denver was terrible under Clint Hurdle (one winning season in 7 full years, fired after 46 games in the 8th), but his attitude/personality has spurred on the Pirates to being competitive after losing 105 games the previous season…

  28. 28
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    An article I read suggests the Braves should look to Chicago for their aquisitions, both north and south…

    Sox: outfielder Carlos Quentin, shortstop Alexei Ramirez, reliever Jesse Crain

    Cubs: outfielders Marlon Byrd and Reed Johnson, infielder Jeff Baker

    It also suggests “Replacing Alex Gonzalez with Alexei Ramirez would be huge for Atlanta”… Looking at Ramirez’s recent stats, I don’t see that he is that much better an option than Gonzalez…

  29. 29
    Steve Says:

    Enough with the Yunel revisionist history. He quit on the team, was checking out of games and was not producing last year. It was the right move. And Gonzo was fine last year. He just sucks this year. Yunel had to go.

  30. 30
    Leah Says:

    I think Gonzo will get better. I predict they all get better. We’re having a funky dry spell. I believe…sorta.

  31. 31
    Curt Says:

    A 4 month dry spell

    Not producing for 70 games. We have guys who have not produced all season, and not only are they still Braves, they are still starting. I’m not revising my opinion on this at all. It was a stupid move then and it’s a stupid move still. Hanley Ramirez is no less a pain in the ass than Escobar is/was and you were singing Fredi’s praises for handling him on this very show. It has hurt the team.

  32. 32
    Frigatedoc Says:

    I agree with Curt on Gonzo….

    I have 1 memory of Escobar…..

    him getting caught on TV flipping someone “the bird”

  33. 33
    Leah Says:

    #31 Exactly…definitely going to start producing. I feel it. Or maybe that lime chipotle dressing from lunch is talking to me.

  34. 34
    Eric Says:

    When Escobar was traded, he had a change of scenery coming in a just a few months: Fredi Gonzalez.

  35. 35
    Walker Says:

    @27
    AND 29

    Yunel Escobar was fine here. He did not quit on the team. It was almost unfair at times because some of his mistakes were seen as if he did them on purpose. He didn’t purposely want to get get Troy Glaus hurt for example. People just need to put themselves in other people ‘s shoes. He was a young man in a foreign country playing Major League Baseball. If you knew nothing about the Braves, from all the stories you would think he punched and cussed out every person on the team. I’m sure he was not a jerk or a mean person. Now you got what you wished for. A shortstop who can’t hit instead of one who can. I haven’t heard any complaints from the Blue Jays. It’s amazing how certain players get singled out. I swear they are on Hanley Ramirez’s back like a dog on MLB network everyday. I’m still confused why Alex Rodriguez is disliked because all he did wrong was take steroids like 65% of other MLB players. I think its jealousy. And it perplexed me why Joe Simpson kept taking shots at Brandon Phillips last Friday when players on our team do the same thing. I wonder if he would have called out Chipper? Nope. Everyone likes an easy target.

  36. 36
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Change of subject…..

    Did anyone see Roberto Alomar steal the shirt from the fan?

  37. 37
    Nate Says:

    #31 and #35, I’m glad to know I’m not alone. I thought I was missing something. The guy was arguably our best player and most clutch hitter since he was called up, and then became the most expendable part of a mostly mediocre (in terms of talent) team. Yeah he had a bad first half. Many Braves have done the same and kept their job. He flipped off a New Yorker. Who among us hasn’t wanted to do the same in their lifetime? Chipper has had nothing negative to say on the guy, and Yunel has never had anything bad to say about the Braves. He’s a very talented player and, for the most part, seems like a nice guy. I don’t know him, I just go off what those who do know him say about him, not what a writer writes in an article just because he’s probably trying to create a great story. The language barrier was a huge disadvantage for him with the media. Don’t buy everything a sports journalist puts to print.

  38. 38
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @29

    Thank you Steve

  39. 39
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @37

    Chipper Jones quote:

    “I think it probably worked out good for both sides,” Jones said. “I think maybe he might have needed a chance of scenery, may have needed to go somewhere where there were some influential Latin players who could, you know, show him the way and how it’s done.

    “It worked out good for him. He got an extension with Toronto. But I never wanted Yunel to leave. I’ve been a big fan of Yunel all along, because the guy’s a good player. You figured if if he maybe turned the corner maturity-wise, that he could be a perennial All-Star. I really felt that way. It’s unfortunate how it worked out, but maybe it worked out for the best for both sides.”

    Is this the definition of “damning with faint praise”? Or saying “He needed to grow up and it wasn’t going to happen here” (my opinion, reading between the lines)

    “I think maybe he might have needed a chance of scenery…”

    “…some influential Latin players who could, you know, show him the way and how it’s done…”

    “…if he maybe turned the corner maturity-wise…”

  40. 40
    john j Says:

    Good comments on Yunel. Even if he had problems, which I doubt, do you want a good player with problems or a crappy player without?

    Sorry Chipper, but they need you and a couple more like you to get this done.

  41. 41
    Walker Says:

    My last comment on Yunel:

    We shouldn’t have traded him.

  42. 42
    Nate Says:

    #39, I think Jose Bautista has been a huge influence on Yunel in Toronto.

  43. 43
    Nate Says:

    Pastornicky did have a good first week in AAA. Given Gonzo’s recent performances, we should all be hoping that kid comes on like a freight train. We need it. Like immediately…

  44. 44
    Kate Says:

    Nats acquired Jonny Gomes.

  45. 45
    Nate Says:

    Frank Wren has what appears to be a great eye for young prospects, and he really likes Pasto.

  46. 46
    Nate Says:

    #44, thank God.

  47. 47
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    ***SPEAKING OF HINDSIGHT***

    I think we have reached the staute of limitations on the Mark Teixeira trade.

    The cost was high, but we got what we paid for. He performed up to what was expected (.317/.404/.615/1.019) . The Braves didn’t take advantage of it. Had they, they could have been contenders for the WS for 2007 & 2008.

    You have to use prospects to play for you or to get you what you don’t have.

    Are you playing to win WS?
    Or are you afraid to trade prospects to try to win now being afraid of how that prospect might look two or three years down the road for someone else? If so, you are going to have to “home grow” your team (how ’bout them Rays – at least for one year…)…
    You can be competitive, year after year, and sit home watching the WS, year after year. (Braves traded three prospects for McGriff in 1993. Braves traded three players in spring training of 1995 for Marquis Grissom. They also had pitching running out of their ears and won the division by 21 games.)

    Yes, Neftali would be nice to have.
    Elvis Andrus would probably have never played for Atlanta while Yunel was here – Elvis started playing for Texas in 2009, Yunel was still our starter. Maybe if Elvis was pushing him, Yunel might have “matured” (or atleast acted like it).
    Salty would NEVER have played for Atlanta as a catcher (read blocked by McCann – not going to use a 1st round pick as a “back-up”). He ws GOING TO BE TRADED. Otherwise, we would have suffered through him showing he can’t play first. He is still not a starting catcher.
    Jones never saw the Majors.
    Harrison is not good enough to break into our starting rotation. Didn’t post a sub 4.70 ERA prior to this year, has never posted double digit wins.
    2008 – started 15 games – 9 and 3 with 5.49 ERA.
    2009 – started 11 games – 4 and 5 with 6.11 ERA.
    2010 – started 6 games (appeared in 37) – 3 and 2 with a 4.71 ERA (relagated to bullpen in 2010), didn’t post a sub 4.70 ERA prior to this year, has never posted double digit wins.
    2011 – started 19 games – 8 and 7 with a 3.05 ERA.

    Thank you – this concludes the rant for the day :)

  48. 48
    Nate Says:

    Not again…

  49. 49
    Adam Says:

    Runner on 3rd with 0 outs and we don’t score. Now we’re down 2-0 after the first inning AGAIN. This is definitely going to be one of “those” nights.

  50. 50
    Jo-Bu Says:

    Well, here we go again, 3-0 and no body’s hitting.

  51. 51
    Frigatedoc Says:

    I am really sick of this folks……

  52. 52
    Kate Says:

    I think I could steal on the Tommy/Mac combo.

  53. 53
    Leah Says:

    Watching Braves v. Bulls and pretending it’s the only game in the world.

  54. 54
    Pure Says:

    Uggla’s average is now 0.200!

  55. 55
    Leah Says:

    Ramirez just hit a double.

  56. 56
    Steve Says:

    We’ll have to agree to disagree on Yunel.

  57. 57
    Leah Says:

    Ramirez just threw his bat over the 2nd baseman and way into the outfield. Then he walked.

  58. 58
    Anne Says:

    Matty!!!

  59. 59
    Anne Says:

    Just like we like him.

  60. 60
    Anne Says:

    I love that Brooks bats gloveless.

  61. 61
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Not only do you seldom squeeze with a left handed batter, you don’t usually squeeze with the bases loaded because they don’t have to tag the runner

  62. 62
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Somebody go slap that fan in the front row, first base side… Leah?

  63. 63
    Adam Says:

    It’ll be a shame if we lose this game. The missed opportunities will give me nightmares.

  64. 64
    Bubdylan Says:

    Steve, I’m with you on Yunel. Don’t want to spend the energy on rehashing it again, but I’m with ya.

  65. 65
    Vinnie Says:

    #64 – Bub, you are clearly the most insightful person on the board.

  66. 66
    Steve Says:

    Dammit! Did it again. #65 was me. Way to ruin a perfectly good attempt at humor.

  67. 67
    David Says:

    WOAH!!!!!!

  68. 68
    David Says:

    THAT may have been the play of the year. Great call by McCann.

  69. 69
    Steve Says:

    How great was that botched squeeze (the Pirates one, that is)?

  70. 70
    Steve Says:

    #68 – Absolutely. Feels like it gives us extra momentum heading into the 9th.

  71. 71
    David Says:

    And McCann is due up 3rd in the bottom of the inning…

  72. 72
    David Says:

    Um……so who plays CF?

  73. 73
    ham Says:

    having used o’ventrel already, i can’t help but feel that the pirates have the advantage here.

  74. 74
    john j Says:

    Linebrink’s chance to shine.

  75. 75
    john j Says:

    Too bad he can’t throw strikes.

  76. 76
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Wonderful….

    Now we need a center fielder, shortstop AND a catcher…

  77. 77
    Kate Says:

    This game has been a nightmare.

  78. 78
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    So which pitcher would you pinch hit with?

    Which pitcher would you play in the field, if necessary?

  79. 79
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    This is shaping up like a game I remember from long ago.

    They had to play a pitcher in the outfield. He played in right against a right handed batter and played in left against a left handed batter. He and the other corner outfielder would exchange places before each batter.

  80. 80
    john j Says:

    Can we get a pitcher ready to bat for Gonzo?

  81. 81
    ham Says:

    UggggARRRRRGHGGHGHGH!!!!!! Can’t Gonzo just strike out? Why even lift the bat off your shoulder?

  82. 82
    john j Says:

    Isn’t Gonzo a free agent next year? Can we get something for him now? Maybe a dozen balls or a new bat boy?

  83. 83
    john j Says:

    Alright, the big hitters are up now. lets end this.

  84. 84
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @82

    Well, they have been saying all along we need a bat… Maybe we can trade for one… Preferably NOT maple…

  85. 85
    john j Says:

    Hudson, get ur bat ready

  86. 86
    Leah Says:

    Good grief.

  87. 87
    Adam Says:

    Why did we ever send Martinez down?

  88. 88
    Nate Says:

    Somehow it always comes to Alex…

  89. 89
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Well, you got your wish, he didn’t hit into a double play…

  90. 90
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Where is Rick Camp when you need him?

  91. 91
    Steve Says:

    #89 – It was one of his few “productive” in recent memory.

  92. 92
    Steve Says:

    I can’t even think about how devastating a McCann injury will be to this team.

    Maybe these games will force Wren to do something bigger at the deadline. Which I’m all for at this point.

  93. 93
    Chris Says:

    Thanks Gonzo, now he cant even field a ground ball

  94. 94
    Kate Says:

    I know Pastornicky is young and just got promoted to AAA, but he can’t be any worse than Gonzo and Lugo.

  95. 95
    Nate Says:

    McCann on 15 day DL. Oblique. Our offense is going to be even more terrible.

  96. 96
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    McCann to the 15 day DL

    Oblique

  97. 97
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    What catcher do they bring up?

  98. 98
    Steve Says:

    DL for McCann. Cannot stand it.

  99. 99
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Can Martinez play CF or short? :)

  100. 100
    Nate Says:

    Just pull all these bums and put the pitching staff in

  101. 101
    Steve Says:

    #98 – JC Boscan, I’d guess.

  102. 102
    Nate Says:

    Maybe Gonzo’s glove will bat clean up. Sorry, I couldn’t help it.

  103. 103
    Nate Says:

    Imagine if you had to throw Boscan out there everyday. Thank you Wren for resigning Ross

  104. 104
    Will Says:

    Its going to get dark here and the braves are not done. Killing my work productivity

  105. 105
    Nate Says:

    Proctor is warming up…

  106. 106
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Well, it looks like it could end next inning… Proctor is warming up…

  107. 107
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @105

    I just can’t type as fast as you can…

  108. 108
    Nate Says:

    7.34 ERA, .294 opponents average. Is that bad?

  109. 109
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Guess on how many runs he surrenders?

    I say three…

  110. 110
    Pure Says:

    Funny… it’s like we’re all waiting for a building to come down with all the explosives in place.

  111. 111
    Nate Says:

    I’ll say 2. The Pirates have to be tired at this point. Under normal, 7th inning of a blowout circumstances I would say 4+.

  112. 112
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @110

    Wow! That was great… Sums it up perfectly…

  113. 113
    Nate Says:

    10 bucks says Proctor just pinched himself.

  114. 114
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @113

    If I gambled, I would take that bet. I think he actually thinks he did a good job…

    Baseball is a results oriented business/job/game…

  115. 115
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Hey and Julio, down by the school yard…

  116. 116
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Remember for later… we need to play Julio after the 9th inning…

  117. 117
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Well, he can’t pitch…

    Maybe he can hit…

  118. 118
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Nope

  119. 119
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Unbelievable…

    He has put the lead off man on two straight innings, has ended up with runners at second and third with two out in both innings and has “wriggled off the hook”… both times!

  120. 120
    Pure Says:

    Let’s burn a starter before Proctor kills us.

  121. 121
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Rally time… Chip and Joe need to shake the Chipper bobble-head…

  122. 122
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    You KNOW Prado is hating this game…

    0 for 9… fortunately (if you can consider anything in an “oh 4 9″ fortunate), only one strikeout.

  123. 123
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    GAPS! Dan…. GAPS!

  124. 124
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Can Freddie go back to first?

  125. 125
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    What?!?! The lead off man DIDN’T reach????

  126. 126
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Have Schafer steal and make sure Julio is alive to see if they throw through…

  127. 127
    Nate Says:

    Unbelievable. Jerry Meals. Classic. Proctor Win and winning hit(?). Proctor fell down after he hit it. What was Meals looking at?

  128. 128
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    U-N-B-E-L-I-E-V-A-B-L-E!

  129. 129
    Nate Says:

    Stunned. Is this real?

  130. 130
    Nate Says:

    So, am I crazy, or was Lugo tagged out 2 times in plain sight before he even touched home?

  131. 131
    Pure Says:

    WOW! Let’s take it and go to sleep.

  132. 132
    Walker Says:

    LOL He wanted to go home. He’ll go home alright. He will be fired or looked into by MLB for obviously calling the runner safe no matter what happened. That takes some balls.

  133. 133
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Wish they had shown that from the overhead “plate cam”…

    The ump was missing the outside pitch all night, so why not miss a swipe tag…

    To give him a little bit of benefit, on the replay it looks like the catcher just barely touched him…

  134. 134
    Jo-Bu Says:

    What a lousy call at home plate. I’m all about winning a game but not one the umpire gives us. Yeah, yeah, I know, we’ve been on the other side of that before. tonight “blue” was horrible behind the plate.

  135. 135
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @132

    Where have you been? There is NO accountability for the umpires! Their union is too strong…

  136. 136
    Walker Says:

    Now we can’t release Proctor after seeing celebration. That would seem horrible. Oh well.

  137. 137
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Wow speechless….. I don’t know what is crazier….. Proctor with the winning RBI, the call at the plate, or all of us crazy nuts still awake!

  138. 138
    Nate Says:

    #137, us.

  139. 139
    Pure Says:

    The Condensed Game for this one will be 2 hours long.

  140. 140
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    BIG question:

    Does McCann’s injury change your opinion on acquisition?

    -To acquire or not to acquire
    -Whom to acquire
    -What you are willing to give

  141. 141
    Pure Says:

    Found a funny comment about the play — runner safe on umpire’s choice. Hahaha!

  142. 142
    Pure Says:

    Clearly safe: http://i.imgur.com/JiMyv.jpg :)

  143. 143
    Nate Says:

    #140, no. I still think we need another proven clutch hitter like Beltran. The asking price is coming down. Minor gets him and I would do it. The opinion that matters is obviously Wren, and I hope the asking price comes down to the Oberholtzer caliber prospects, which is what it takes for Beltran to be a Brave. I just think that someone else jumps in before it goes that low. Beltran and Reed Johnson are the only two I like in terms of OFers.

    Wren will not sacrifice A quality prospects. I like that. One or maybe two will become what they’re projected to be, so you need to hang onto all four pitching prospects to make sure you get the maximum benefit.

  144. 144
    Nate Says:

    It’s terrible to think about the possibility of Vizcaino, Feliz, Venters, and Kimbrel in the same bullpen. That’s why I hate thinking about past trades. If we do get a guy like Beltran, I’m sure we’ll all put it in the Teixera category as far as trades go.

  145. 145
    Leah Says:

    Can anybody tell what’s wrong with Prado?

  146. 146
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @144

    Everything is re-evaluated differently in hindsight…

    We obtained Smoltz and JJ in such deals…

    Looked good to the Tigers at the time. They were trying to fit a final piece to put them over the top. Then it took a bit for them to work out for us. They just look REALLY good, so, in hindsight…

  147. 147
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @145

    “wrong”?

    Just didn’t have a good night at the plate. Don’t think his “eye” is back yet (only 2 walks since return)

    As for 0 for 9, he only struck out once… During the Texas routing of the Twins, every starter had at least one hit… BUT one guy went 0 for 6… Always seems to happen…

  148. 148
    Curt Says:

    Eric Hinske, as he walked past Proctor: “That guy can hit!”

  149. 149
    Eric Says:

    Sure plenty of you all heard it last night, but just to underscore Kimbrel’s awesomeness – he has more Ks (81) than Jurrjens (80) on the season.

  150. 150
    Nate Says:

    Does Lugo start getting starts over Gonzo? He’s solid defensively, and his ABs definitely look better than Gonzo’s. No a bad idea to leave him at 3rd and Prado in LF for lefties while Chip is out.

  151. 151
    Nate Says:

    Pastornicky only struck out 34 times in 355 ABs at Mississippi. That’s pretty damn good.

  152. 152
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Did anyone see that there was over 700 pitches last night?

  153. 153
    Steve Says:

    Kudos to all of you that made it through the whole game. Very impressive.

    And I believe that Chipper plus McCann WILL encourage the Braves to do something more bold at the deadline. The problem is who? Beltran doesn’t want to play CF, so that’s an issue. The Astros are reportedly not shopping Pence. And it looks like Rasmus may be on the move this afternoon.

  154. 154
    Steve Says:

    A couple of good articles on “the worst call ever.”

    http://joeposnanski.si.com/2011/07/27/meals-and-squeals/

    http://espn.go.com/blog/SweetSpot/post/_/id/14246/we-have-a-new-worst-call-ever

  155. 155
    Leah Says:

    Kudos indeed. I barely made it through the extended game without doing serious damage to my iPhone.

  156. 156
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    ESPN says Rasmus is now a Bluejay.

  157. 157
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    If we wait long enough, eventually, our choice will be easier as it will be like Highlander…

    To paraphrase “In the end, there will be only one…”

  158. 158
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Opinions (each one is valid):

    Are you willing to obtain two months of Beltran at a cost of Mike Minor?

  159. 159
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Opinions (each one is valid):

    How highly do you value Minor? Analysts project him to be a 3rd or 4th starter. Agree/Disagree?

  160. 160
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Looks like Beltran is headed to the Giants (“sources say deal close”, but ESPN Rumors section talks like it is a “done deal”).

  161. 161
    john j Says:

    Misc.:

    Wren doesn’t have to pull off a super deal; a couple of veteran .250 plus hitters would provide depth, pinch hitting, and stability (Example: Wigginton of Rockies plays every position except catcher, .318 vs lefties).

    Also, if Braves are to win this year, Uggla will have to be a leader when Chipper and McCann aren’t in there. Heyward, Freeman, and Prado will have to help carry this team. It can be done. They’re young but need to step up. We aren’t scoring enoough runs; 8 losses this month alone where they scored 3 runs or less. Time to start hitting (timely hitting). Gonzo needs more bench time. Is 0-9 (Prado) a record?

    Congrats to Proctor and Martinez; could they be the extra pitchers we are looking for?

  162. 162
    Curt Says:

    Maybe we focus on a SS? Carroll?

    To answer the above question, despite it possibly being moot, I see Minor as no more than a 3 or 4 and would have traded him for Beltran.

  163. 163
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    For myself, I am still on the Bourn bandwagon looking at the available pool.

    Rasmus is gone. Looks like Brltran is gone. I don’t think Upton helps us this year with the way he strikes out. Willingham is not batting well for about a month.

    Bourn:
    - is a center fielder (no need to “play him or anyone else out of position”)

    - is an everyday (.280+ vs LH or RH) leadoff man with speed – OBP .360 w/ 38 SB

    - is not a RH bat, but:
    vs Left – .284 .339 .394 .733
    vs. Right – .308 .367 .407 .774

    - offensive numbers have improved as the season has gone on:
    Overall – .302 .360 .403 .763
    May – .265 .323 .359 .682
    June – .324 .388 .467 .855
    July – .351 .378 .415 .793
    Last 7 Days – .414 .452 .448 .900
    Post All Star – .404 .426 .462 .888

    28 years old
    $4.4M in 2011
    Arb Elig in 2012
    Free Agent in 2013

    Can place Schafer on DL for his chipped bone, plug Bourn into CF, allows Schafer to get better slowly or possibily move him back to minors for a while.

  164. 164
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @162

    Also, I am pretty sure he would be a Type A free agent, so if we offer arbitration and he walks, we get two draft picks and maybe Schafer (maybe plays winter ball) is better able to handle CF on an everyday basis by that time.

  165. 165
    Nate Says:

    We really need to do something. I hate that all this is happening and the Phillies are rumored to be going after Pence with all they got.

  166. 166
    Curt Says:

    If ESPN reports are true about Beltran going to the Giants, they gave up their Teheran to get him. It cost them their #1 pitching prospect. Not saying he is in the same class as Teheran, but Baseball Prospectus has him as the Giants’ #2 prospect and #52 overall. That is 4 spots above Kimbrel, and 6 above Delgado.

  167. 167
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Gonzo looked terrible last night…… Everytime he got up to the plate I litterally KNEW he was going to be an out. How many double plays did he ground into?

  168. 168
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Wil Nieves??

    Really?

    We lose BOTH McCann and Schafer to the DL and this is all that we get?

    Hey Steve….don’t you have Javy Lopez on speed dial? Can Eddie Perez still catch?

  169. 169
    Frigatedoc Says:

    BTW….can we go back to the “old days” when we just had the “Struggla” meter, Proctor was not a hero and get all of our players back? This stinks…..

  170. 170
    Leah Says:

    #Braves lineup: 1. McLouth CF, 2. Prado LF, 3. Freeman 1B, 4. Uggla 2B, 5. Ross C, 6. Ramirez RF, 7. Lugo 3B, 8. Gonzalez SS, 9. Jurrjens

    Come on JJ! We neeeeeeeed you to be freakishly awesome.

  171. 171
    Anne Says:

    Greetings from Turner Field…looking forward to a win. Go Braves!!

  172. 172
    Anne Says:

    Ham/Steve – tell Scott it’s not too late to get his ticket for tomorrow night. It being Chipper Jones Bobblehead Night – figure he needs it for his home altar.

  173. 173
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Why didn’t Meals call him safe?

  174. 174
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Prepare for it folks…

    We will not get the benefit of a close call the entire night…

    Not a conspiracy, just human nature…

  175. 175
    Anne Says:

    I think Newt Gingrich is here. Have they shown him on TV?

  176. 176
    Anne Says:

    M in M – David Ross can make a close call count

  177. 177
    john j Says:

    It has to happen THIS inning.

  178. 178
    john j Says:

    Freeman, needed contact to move up the runner. Too bad as Uggla is on fire!!

  179. 179
    john j Says:

    Doctor Ross is Doggone good!!

  180. 180
    john j Says:

    Aren’t there a couple of better hitting outfielders in Gwinnett?

    Lugo used it all up last night. He is back to normal.

  181. 181
    john j Says:

    JJ is done; wonder if Fredi notices

  182. 182
    Leah Says:

    Anybody else getting a sense of deja vu?

  183. 183
    Anne Says:

    Why in god’s name do they play “Caribbean Queen” when O’Flaherty comes in to pitch? I heard it at another game and thought it was an anomaly.

  184. 184
    Anne Says:

    Matty! Live and in person and OUT!

  185. 185
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @179

    No, it is just that he plays his best from the ninth inning on…

  186. 186
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @184

    Sorry, meant the 10th inning on…

  187. 187
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    So, bunt Prado or hit and run?

  188. 188
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Chipper Pipp? (at least as far as the third spot in the order goes…)

  189. 189
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    PLEASE DON’T HURT DAVID!!!

  190. 190
    john j Says:

    Doctor Ross is a surgeon.

  191. 191
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Great game….. One problem, 14 hits and 2 runs. NO clutch hitting!

  192. 192
    Curt Says:

    Expect a lot more of that with these types of lineups

  193. 193
    Nate Says:

    This team is going to get beat in 1 series in October. These stories of a team that runs on great team chemistry and they all like each other are great, but eventually you need superior talent, which we don’t have. I have turned completely Curt. You guys can pretend that we’re the Giants of last year, but we don’t have the pitching they had or the clutch hitting. I’m done getting my hopes up. Sorry to be that guy, but it is what it is. It’s not the end of the world, it’s just baseball. Better luck next year…

  194. 194
    Nate Says:

    Cue the sky is falling replies to my last comment. Sorry, reality is what it is. We’ve played a lot of baseball.

  195. 195
    Jo-Bu Says:

    Well, right now they are playing like the 2008 team played. Huge missed opps with RISP.

  196. 196
    Nate Says:

    I just hope we don’t sacrifice talent for what might be a greater clubhouse in the future. I could give a crap if the guys hang out off the field. That is not what matters, nor does it win championships. Our team looks like guys who all enjoy each other’s company but can’t bring it on the field. It’s boring to watch on a nightly basis. I am so over the team chemistry fluff bs that surrounds this team.

  197. 197
    Nate Says:

    I would also like to apologize in advance to Steve. I’m guessing this is another area where we will agree to disagree. I’m just not that optimistic about where our team is right now. Loads of pitching and no offense, coupled by no offense on the horizon. We need runs. Everything shows we need runs. There is no offense on the farm. Where does it come from?

  198. 198
    Curt Says:

    We’ll see what happens. If Wren sits on his hands and does nothing, I think they are in trouble. Pittsburgh is a nice little team, with good pitching of their own, but we just have lots of holes to fill and it seems like every piece we get back (or get going), we lose another one in its stead. I hope FW is not sitting around waiting for our lineup to be intact as our move. I’m not sure that cuts it.

    Olney’s latest for the Braves are Willingham or Ryan Ludwick – he of the .238 BA.

    I don’t think the sky is falling because there is a lot of talent on this team, but it seems that the Braves are once again content to sit and watch other teams make moves while they do some secondary maintenance. I don’t think that is enough this year.

  199. 199
    Steve Says:

    #193 /198 – Nate, I agree 100 percent, this morning. But this team has a strange way of changing what appears to be its unfortuneate destiny. Think back to last year and parts of this year when things changed and it all came together. Not saying it will, but it could.

    Curt, all of that said, I agree with you about the deadline. One or two good offensive pieces and we can compete with anybody. It is time for a move.

  200. 200
    Eric Says:

    Powell said Braves got Nieves for $1. Huge acquisition.

  201. 201
    David Says:

    197 – agreed. Standing pat is not the right move this season — not when Heyward’s struggling and McLouth and Gonzalez can’t be relied upon to produce at any extended length. The latter two may have had decent-to-good weeks (yes, I include Gonzo in there because of his series in Cincinnati), but I don’t expect either of them to keep it up for any length of time. And we must get another reliever to help with O’Ventbrel. Linebrink’s having a nice season, and so is Sherrill, but some help is sorely needed.

    Willingham is a nice bat, though he’s having a down year and his career second-half numbers are worse than his first-half (.270/.372/.482 first half vs. .252/.350/.452 second half). Also, he’s never played CF in his major league career.

    Carlos Quentin would be great, but again — no CF in his career. His second half numbers are better than first half: .263/.355/.507 second half vs .248/.345/.483 first half. Might cost a bit, but perhaps we could get away with giving up Oberholtzer and Spruill. Kinda doubt it though.

    I don’t want Ryan Ludwick, at all. 1st/2nd half numbers are nearly identical, and not too great. Perhaps he could be a case of a change of scenery, getting away from a team that has nothing to play for to going for a team with World Series aspirations — but he’s had one good season in his career (2008), with the rest being very mediocre.

    Some moves I’d like to see the Braves make:

    - DFA Lugo and Proctor
    - Trade for Jamey Carroll
    - Trade for Tyler Clippard
    - Trade for Quentin

  202. 202
    Curt Says:

    I wonder if its the Tex deal that still hangs over their heads? I wonder if that trade has so scared/scarred the front office that they simply aren’t willing to pull the trigger. Or if this all comes back to money and they just don’t want to shed some cheap long term pieces for a rental that they would have to pay. Giants are picking up $4mm on Beltran on top of trading their #1 pitching prospect.

    DOB was on with 790 yesterday midday and said that the payroll is not a Liberty Media deal, it is strictly Terry McGuirk. Which pisses me off to no end. I hope the very, very first move a new owner makes is to fire him immediately.

  203. 203
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @201

    Of course the deal still hangs over their heads… The fact that it is mentioned on a board like this EVERY WEEK tends to show that…

  204. 204
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Nice article on Freddie, by the way:

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/6803748/atlanta-braves-rookie-freddie-freeman-showing-belongs-bigs

  205. 205
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @200

    I will go with all your moves, just exchange Bourn for Quentin…

  206. 206
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    See 162

    Make your case for Quentin…

  207. 207
    David Says:

    Listening to this week’s podcast. Whichever one of you went to the hipster wedding where they were walking down the aisle to Mumford and Sons…those guys have got to be the most overrated band in music right now.

  208. 208
    David Says:

    205:

    Bourn pros — everything you named
    Bourn cons — he gives us what Schafer gives us, and he’s a left-handed bat

    From what I’ve heard, Braves aren’t interested in Bourn — seems like they’ve moved past him

    Quentin

    Pros: we’d have him this season and next
    strong second-half numbers
    he’s a slugger — 20 hr, 62 rbi, 26 doubles, .262/.353/.510 (.863 OPS), low K totals, low GIDP totals
    I have no idea if we could, but I think we could get him without giving up one of our 4 top pitching prospects

    Cons: zero MLB experience in CF
    low walk total

  209. 209
    john j Says:

    My take on ownership and spending:

    Liberty Media IS always part of the thinking process. They let Braves management do their job but they ask for a certain dollar profit returned to the parent company. Yes, Braves’ management could spend like crazy in hopes that attendence and and advertising revenue grows so they can deliver the profit number. Or, they can be more conservative and provide a decent product to the fans without sticking their neck out too far. If your job was on the line which would you do?

    Also, if you were in Braves management, would you complain about the parent company tying your hands?

    Additional problem on the revenue is Atlanta fans don’t pack the stadium even in the good years (Not even with a playoff game).

    Maybe there will be new owners in the future that want to win and are willing to take some risk. Then, if they spend and build the team, the fans will come!!

  210. 210
    Nate Says:

    Apologies for the gloom and doom, but it was inspired by 38 innings of the most frustrating baseball I have ever watched in a relatively short time period. The positives are that David Ross is clutch and Martinez looked great, especially the changeup.

    I think the Mac injury has me in complete freak out mode because you never know how long those things will take. Plus if he does come back, how healed will he actually be, and what toll will that take on his offensive production? We can make the postseason as is, and that might be enough to meet Wren’s expectations for the year. I guess we’ll find out.

    I don’t see the con to giving up Mike Minor. I personally think the other 3 are better, and I think Medlen, Beachy, JJ, and Hanson are better. I would take Quentin in a second, but it seems strange that the White Sox would let him go. He hits well with men on base, and is a good right handed bat for the middle of the order. Jamey Carroll would be a solid piece for our bench. Reed Johnson would be a nice addition to the outfield mix. Clippard would make our bullpen beyond insane. Bourn would be an upgrade at the top of the order and in CF. There are still a lot of ways to improve this team.

    Our lineup will never be healthy.

  211. 211
    Curt Says:

    John J, i think fans coming is so much more than even a product on the field right now. There just isn’t a buzz about the Braves like there was in the past. For us die hards, we are in it win or lose. But I listen to 790 every morning and the time they dedicate to the Braves compared to football in particular is glaring. I think if you have an owner, even if it isn’t someone splashy but just a face, it will help to bring some people into the fold. You want that one person to be accountable and to be the one you believe has your back as a fan. The reason the Trashers aren’t here anymore isn’t a fan problem, it’s an ownership and perception problem.

    I don’t want us to fall into this conversation again, though. It’s a hole that we all know we are stuck in, regardless of your take on it. These are the owners we have.

    MIM, I don’t think FW is reading the chat boards and blogs about the fan’s feeling on the Tex trade. My point was that you have to move on as a GM. You can’t let that one trade dictate what you do forever. And if that is what holds you back now, you will never get anywhere.

  212. 212
    Nate Says:

    On Tuesday night Chip and Joe pointed out that the Braves are seeing more lefties than anybody else. Our secret is out.

  213. 213
    Nate Says:

    Giants Offense: Adding to the panic is the fact that the Giants added Beltran to this list of Brave Killers: Ross, Rowand, Torres, Huff, Sandoval, Fontenot. These are the guys who can look terrible for 2 ABs, and then rip a 2 run double in the 7th.

    Giants Pitching: We didn’t hit it last October, and they always seem to frustrate our guys. They have 2 lefties in the pen. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them add another.

    Add home field advantage for them, and I’m already dreading that series.

  214. 214
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @207

    We will have to agree to disagree on your “Bourn cons” that “he give us what Schafer give us”…
    Schafer – On DL
    Bourn – Playing

    Schafer – Sits against tough lefthanders (vs. LH – .190/.254/.241/.495)
    Bourn – Plays every day (vs. LH .284/.339/.394/.733 – his BA vs. LH is higher than Schafer’s OBP vs. LH)

    Schafer – vs. RH .261/.329/.348/.677
    Bourn – vs. RH .308/.367/.407/.774

    Schafer – June & July: 14SB – 2CS – overall 15SB – 4CS
    Bourn – June & July: 18SB – 4CS – overall 38SB – 7CS

    Schafer – post All Star .296/.424/.333/.757
    Bourn – post All Star .404/.426/.462/.888

    Quentin vs. Bourn
    Quentin – vs. LH .275/.388/.525/.913
    Bourn – vs. LH .284/.339/.394/.733

    Quentin – vs. RH .258/.341/.506/.847
    Bourn – vs. RH .308/.367/.407/.774

    Quentin – post All Star – .341/.370/.568/.938
    Bourn – post All Star .404/.426/.462/.888

    Qunetin – Never played CF in a ML game, so someone is going to have to play out of position
    Bourn – Played nothing but CF for the past four years – has exp in RF & LF

    Qunetin – “he’s a slugger” – we have “sluggers”
    Bourn – he is a “prototypical lead-off man”, gets on base, steals bases, etc. – we don’t have that

    Quentin probably won’t cost as much as Bourn – both a positive and negative… If Quentin costs less than Bourn is he less valuable than Bourn…

    Which is tougher to find, a slugging RF or a quality hitting, speedy, CF, lead-off guy?

  215. 215
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Oh-By-The-Way:

    Quentin factoid:

    14 of his 20 home runs on the season have come against right-handed pitchers, as have 84 of his career 117…

  216. 216
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @207

    ” Quentin Pros: we’d have him this season and next”

    He is Arb Elig in 2012, just like Bourn…

  217. 217
    Nate Says:

    Ryan Ludwick and Josh Willingham. Now these names feel more Brave-like. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a Ludwick/RP package with the Pads (not Adams or Bell).

    How are we still talking to the Astros about Pence? Do you think they’re kicking around the idea of a Delgado/Minor package?

  218. 218
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    FYI:

    Gerry Fraley of the Dallas Morning News says Neftali Feliz is becoming a serious concern due to his diminished velocity. “I don’t know if he’s hurt. He’s not the same pitcher this year; he’s not blowing away hitters,” Fraley writes.

  219. 219
    Curt Says:

    MIM, I found this. (Thank god we traded him, right)

    When Ron Washington talked about reinforcements, he could have been talking about his current roster. [Washington] questioned Neftali Feliz’s “fire” on Wednesday, perhaps hoping it would light one under the feet of the Rangers closer. “I’d like to see more,” Washington said. “When he comes in the game, I want to feel like it’s do or die. I try to tell him all the time how important those three outs are. I just don’t see that sense of urgency.” Speaking through interpreter Eleno Ornelas, the Rangers’ Spanish language broadcaster, Feliz said he is not lacking “fire. “Last year I was more nervous,” he said. “Now, I feel more relaxed. I know what I’m doing out there.” Feliz blew a save in Tuesday’s 9-8 loss to Minnesota, allowing a pair of runs in the ninth.

  220. 220
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @210

    I agree. I don’t think FW reads here… I was just using “locally to project globally” so to speak.

    There is usally a mention of it in trade articles every year.

    Prospects seem to be more valued than maybe they should be and the team “mortgaging the futrue” seems to come up a lot…

  221. 221
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @218

    Think he still want to be a starter?

  222. 222
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @216

    I concurr. That type of trade has be FW’s modus operendi so far…

  223. 223
    Bubdylan Says:

    221, Dan Uggla says hello.

  224. 224
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @222

    OK.

    I concurr. That type of trade has been FW’s modus operendi so far AT THE TRADE DEADLINE SINCE TEX…

  225. 225
    Eric Says:

    Wren didn’t trade for Tex.

  226. 226
    Bubdylan Says:

    :)

    Fair enough.

    Though, as Frank Wren Apologist extrordinaire, I feel compelled to give hellos from Hanson, Minor, Beachy, Teheran, Vizcaino, Delgado, etc, etc.

    I think it’s no secret that Wren’s trade strategy is very conservative and protective. But I don’t see how else he can keep a contender together on 90 million.

    All the same, I could live without another useless Farnsworth/Ankiel subtraction by addition move. Rather do nothing.

  227. 227
    Nate Says:

    We’re “hot” for Carlos Quenton according to Rosenthal. Maybe we should pass him a note at recess.

  228. 228
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @225

    “But I don’t see how else he can keep a contender together on 90 million.”

    Probably

  229. 229
    Frigatedoc Says:

    I’ll bet a refresh http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/atlanta_braves/ 100 times a day!

  230. 230
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @224

    Never said he did.

    However, full disclosure, he was the top Asst. GM in Aug 2007 when the trade was made and became GM in Oct. 2007.

  231. 231
    Bubdylan Says:

    If I ever discover that long term faith in Jordan Schafer is the reason the Braves backed off of Bourn, I will turn in my Frank Wren fan club card.

  232. 232
    Leah Says:

    Surely other teams have similar trade stories that don’t pan out. Some teams can just go out and buy what they need to replace what they thought they needed.

  233. 233
    Steve Says:

    #231 – Could not agree more.

  234. 234
    Bubdylan Says:

    Who’s winning the fantasy contest?

  235. 235
    Leah Says:

    FANTASTIC QUESTION! Kate’s still winning…I’m still in second. Chicks rule!

  236. 236
    Curt Says:

    #234 – *auto-draft

  237. 237
    Bubdylan Says:

    #235… oh …. LOL.

  238. 238
    Curt Says:

    Looking at Wil Nieves’ stats for this year, I feel like we almost got screwed paying a dollar for him

  239. 239
    Leah Says:

    #236 “angry eyes”

    It takes a very humble manager to realize his or her weaknesses and call on resources of all kinds in order to get the job done. The job, in this case, being beat all you hairy men.

  240. 240
    Leah Says:

    And again…Curt, what is your excuse for getting beaten so very badly by Anne? Pray tell?

  241. 241
    Leah Says:

    239
    I mean Kate. Trying to sneak in comments during work hours gets very tricky.

  242. 242
    Curt Says:

    I’m hairy?

  243. 243
    Jo-Bu Says:

    #237

    I think we did get screwed by the Wil Nieves deal. We gotta pick up the rest of his salary for the year (but I think he was at league minium anyway). He won’t even get a sniff of the show this year. I’m still wondering why we got him unless he’s filling in for Boscan down on the farm.

  244. 244
    john j Says:

    Last comment on ownership until there is new ownership: If someone could turn John Malone into a real fan of the Braves (instead of a Rockies fan), it would be like having Ted Turner back. He has that type of money ($4.5 billion or so). Can’t some of you invite him over to the house and brain wash him? Money can’t buy a championship but it would make some of the decisions talked about above a lot easier.

  245. 245
    Bubdylan Says:

    Gammons just announced that the Braves were after Marlon Byrd, but Cubs still plan to contend (lol).

  246. 246
    Bubdylan Says:

    The pursuit of Byrd tells us two things: Braves know they need a CF upgrade and Wren is still good at keeping his goals quiet.

  247. 247
    Bubdylan Says:

    Ugh. Ludwick, if whispers are to be believed.

  248. 248
    Bubdylan Says:

    Wait, nevermind. Misunderstood the Schulz tweet, I think.

  249. 249
    Bubdylan Says:

    Looks like something may be happening, though. DOB and Shulz both mentioning a quick/purposeful meeting between Fredi, Wren, and Manno.

    Two rumors it could be connected to, and both worrisome: Pence is close to being traded, and Ludwick is out of the line up. Ludwick sucks and I’d hate to see what would be paid for Pence of Houston really turned down the rumored offer from Philly…

  250. 250
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    In addition to Quentin, the White Sox are reportedly “dangling” another name…

    Adam Dunn

    Think a “change of scenery” back to the NL (especially the NL East) would help him?

    (I don’t think , and such could convey the tone enough to say how much I hope we DON’T persue THAT trade…)

  251. 251
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Phills talking to SD about Mike Adams and Ryan Ludwick in a deal, but talks are appearently “held up” by talks w/ Houston concerning Pence.

  252. 252
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @249

    Forgot it screen potential XSS items…

    Insert “-grin-” and “-rolling eyes-” on either side of the comma after “think” and “etc.” after the “and”…

  253. 253
    Leah Says:

    #241. I don’t know about real life but in virtual world you’re the dude who looks like he’a wearing a sweater under his muscle shirt.

  254. 254
    Bubdylan Says:

    Every time I see Nate’s hair bobbing up and down, my dislike for Schafer grows less.

  255. 255
    Bubdylan Says:

    Sigh, the return of Lowedemort.

  256. 256
    Anonymous Says:

    I cannot believe this series….miserable. We are never inviting the Pirates for a visit again…never.

  257. 257
    Leah Says:

    Um…

  258. 258
    Anne (less lazy) Says:

    Giants beatin’ up on the Phillies AGAIN? Somebody up there likes us poor schmoes.

  259. 259
    Bubdylan Says:

    Like the life on Vavaro’s pitches.

  260. 260
    Anne Says:

    La Dolche Varvaro…or something like that

  261. 261
    john j Says:

    Wow, Varvaro makes it interesting. You strike out or you walk but he can’t be hit.

  262. 262
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Looks like Alex has changed his approach at the plate.

    It looks like he has cut down on his swing a bit to just hit line drives. It has paid dividends this evening. Except for a great play on a line drive by Cedeno, Alex would be 3 for 3…

  263. 263
    john j Says:

    11 hits? Could have used one or two “timely hits”.

    How about just releasing McLouth?

  264. 264
    Kate Says:

    Well I didn’t get the result I was hoping for in my first trip to the Ted. I apologize for the loss that is sure to come tomorrow night. I have terrible luck when attending sporting events.

  265. 265
    Curt Says:

    Watching Baseball Tonight and Kurkjian really seems to think the Braves are heavily working on a deal for Pence. 3 or 4 prospects in the deal. I HOPE that one of those will be Schafer. Otherwise, we might be getting fleeced again.

  266. 266
    Curt Says:

    Last one…according to Trade Rumors, the Phils offered the #39 and #70 rated overall prospects plus a 2nd tier pitching prospect to the Astros for Pence and were turned down. Also reports that the Braves deal could include 2 top pitching prospects, but not Teheran. (Minor + ?).

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/atlanta_braves/

  267. 267
    Bubdylan Says:

    If we trade, say, Minor and Vizcaino, what’s our post-Huddy rotation looking like? I am sure we will have to let one of Jurrjens and Hanson go when the price tag gets high. So…

    Jurrjens/Hanson
    Teheran
    Delgado
    Beachy
    Medlen/Free Agent

    Hoping just five pitchers will fill five spots is pretty risky, and if they dwindle down to this for Hunter Pence and don’t sign him past 2012, all that work on building the farm will be a ghostly vapor. If they DO sign Pence for more years, it’s a decent gamble.

  268. 268
    Curt Says:

    Bub, it seems, given their history, that if they are to pay anyone, it’s pitchers. It seems unlikely to me too, but maybe they sign both of those guys. Even with them being Boras clients.

    Doesn’t logic dictate that only 2 of these guys are going to make it big time? It all comes down to picking the right 2.

    They HAVE to resign Pence if this goes through. You can’t give up that much for a year and a half. We’ve already seen how that turns out. I’m a little anxious about all of this.

  269. 269
    Curt Says:

    Of course, this morning, the leading contender listed for Pence is the Phillies. It also notes that this is the deadline for that deal to go through and then the Astros are moving on. Domonic Brown seems to be the hang up.

  270. 270
    Eric Says:

    Kimbrel on the Rude Awakening this morning. Rude asked him if he kept track of his stats. He said, “The only one I know is blown saves.”

    Also, coming out high school he could barely throw in the low 90s. He dropped 800 lbs of sheet rock and his left foot. Spent the entire rehab throwing from his knees, tweaked his mechanics, and by his second year of JUCO was regularly hitting 96.

  271. 271
    Curt Says:

    Note to self: Go back in time and drop 800 lbs of sheet rock on foot.

    More on the Phils and Pence. Apparently the prospects being offered by the Phillies for Pence are A ball guys. The Stros fans are none too excited about this.

    http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2011/07/28/astros-now-more-likely-to-trade-pence/

  272. 272
    Curt Says:

    And then there’s this opinion from Philly that Pence isn’t remotely close to being worth what they might give up for him.

    http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20110729_Paul_Hagen__A_scout_s_dissenting_view_of_Astros__Pence.html

  273. 273
    Nate Says:

    I think one of the stipulations from the ‘stros is that they want some MLB ready guys in the deal, but Minor, Delgado, and Schafer seems like a lot. This might be the only way you get a right handed bat to Atlanta.

  274. 274
    Steve Says:

    Pence gets dealt today. And I think it will be to the Braves.

  275. 275
    Steve Says:

    Also, I think it will be Minor and Delgado. Both of whom are real question marks. Not saying that it’s a no brainer and there’s no risk. They could both be awesome. I’m just saying, we don’t really know about Delgado yet and we’ve seen a good bit of Minor and it’s up and down so far.

  276. 276
    Nate Says:

    #274, I agree with your thoughts on the prospects. Arodys and Julio are the closest to contributing to the big league club. I was going to make a point that this crop is not it for us and pitchers, but the guy I was going to bring up, Carlos Perez, is having a rough year in Rome. Everyone was pretty high on him before the season starts. Yeah he’s just in A ball, but so were Julio and Arodys. The speed of those guys can show that if you draft or sign the right guy he can be ready in a 2-3 years. We did draft that lefty pitcher out of FSU in round 1 this year. I would hope we spent a first rounder on a guy who can at least be in AAA in a year or two, like Minor.

  277. 277
    Nate Says:

    I don’t see how you turn down a package including guys like Delgado and Minor if your the Astros. Those guys would be in Houston tomorrow. The Astros are just that bad. The few Astros fans I know really want this thing to go down because they are so hurt for pitching. JA Happ sucks when he can’t face the Braves 5 times a year.

  278. 278
    Leah Says:

    Are we nervous Phillie will swipe him? Not able to read all the news so I might be a bit behind. Even if they are gunning for him our pitching prospects trump theirs any day. Don Sutton is going to have to stop referring to him as the praying mantis.

  279. 279
    Nate Says:

    Are the Patriots high?

  280. 280
    Nate Says:

    Kurkijian thinks it will take a 3-4 player package. I’m feeling less optimistic about this going through. If the Phillies get him that’s pretty much it.

  281. 281
    Bubdylan Says:

    Delgado looked very poised and capable during his outing for Atlanta. Why has the love for him dried up so much since? Is he doing poorly in the minors?

    Vizcaino’s arm troubles scare me. Also heard a scout mention a bit of a poise problem for him. I haven’t kept up enough to form an informed opinion, but someone tell me why I’d rather lose Delgado than Vizcaino.

  282. 282
    Bubdylan Says:

    If the Braves sell the farm (re Kurkijan) for Pence a year after the Phillies got Oswalt from the stros for a sack of ju ju beans, I will drive to Atlanta and slap Wren’s pretty hair off.

    And how do you like this quote from MLBTR:

    “The Braves don’t value on-base percentage as much as other teams, one NL official told Olney (Pence has a .354 OBP).”

    That’s just great. The one central thing, the basic and nearly only universally agreed upon aspect of the saber revolution, and we’re like, “nah, that’s some voodoo, that ain’t real.” Why’d they let Frenchy go, then?

  283. 283
    Curt Says:

    I would add to that evaluation “…under Fredi Gonzalez.” With all those walks they took last year, their OBP had to be at an all time high.

    This series in particular seemed like the old wait around for the 3 run homer trick. What did you have in the last 2 games? 22 hits and you scored 5 runs? How many walks? They had runners galore and couldn’t get one big hit. It’s like I’m glad we didn’t get swept, but I’m mad we didn’t win all 4.

  284. 284
    Curt Says:

    Sorry to just throw stats out there with no real numbers. I’m lazy and don’t want to look all of that up right now.

  285. 285
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Watching Beltran play with the Giants is like seeing the girl you asked to the prom with another guy.

    (Partially stolen from Steve’s “Frenchy like getting an old girlfriend back” analogy.

  286. 286
    Nate Says:

    The Pence trade talks have made me completely useless so far today…

  287. 287
    Nate Says:

    #281, I saw that. WTF?

  288. 288
    Curt Says:

    I have to say, after reading that article from the Philadelphia Inquirer, I’m not so hot on him now. Especially, as Bub notes, if we have to give up the farm for him.

  289. 289
    Leah Says:

    I think this year will be like other years…we come very close but no cigar. Phillies take tons of girls to the prom while the Braves sit at home watching 80′s movies with their mother.

  290. 290
    Steve Says:

    Why not Bourn over Pence? He should come cheaper and still brings a lot to the table. I mean, there was much Bourn talk a few weeks ago and it’s completely dried up. Could that mean that’s who we’re really targeting (Frank in stealth mode)?

  291. 291
    Nate Says:

    #289, I thought they came out early add said they weren’t interested in Bourn.

    #287, that article, plus Buster Olney’s, and Talking Chop have me wondering if he’s worth 2 starting pitchers on the cheap.

  292. 292
    Nate Says:

    *and said

  293. 293
    Bubdylan Says:

    Curt, 282, you’re probably right. Fredi took heat in Florida for keeping a low OBP guy in the lead off spot, and he’s repeating the mistake here. So, yeah, Fredi’s bad.

    Steve, no EARTHLY idea why we’re not going after the cheaper, and more positionally appropriate, Bourn instead of all this Bourn business. My (very doubtful) secret hope is that we’re driving up the Philly price on Bourn with no intention of getting him, and then snag Bourn at the end. But I’m not optimistic anything that smart is going on. Wren has been straight forward, if quiet, in the past.

  294. 294
    Bubdylan Says:

    Last point: Pence is rockin’ an unsustainable .370 BABIP this year.

  295. 295
    Bubdylan Says:

    agh, I meant “driving up the Philly price on PENCE” in #292

  296. 296
    Bubdylan Says:

    Ugh, in fact, nobody should even read #292, apparently I named every player I was talking about Bourn.

  297. 297
    Bubdylan Says:

    Leah, we’ll take Tanya Hanson, Jan Jurrjens, Dana Uggla, and Joan Venters to the prom. Never fear.

    The trick is to make Philly pay all those limo rides for one extra dance with a girl whose … uh … make-up and hair … uh … relies on a .370 BABIP (Boys Are Blindly Inlovewith Pence)… percent …

    Boy, that got ugly.

  298. 298
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Would you straight up trade Heyward for Pence?

  299. 299
    Bubdylan Says:

    Frig, (mind if I call you Frig?), no, not at the heavy price tag. The chance that Heyward will recover to give up Pence-like production or more for one twentieth of the cost next year is too high to risk it.

    Heyward was a 5 WAR player for half a million dollars last year. That’s the kind of value Atlanta MUST get from a couple of players per season if they want to contend on 90 million.

  300. 300
    Bubdylan Says:

    “There continues to be zero enthusiasm within Atl org. about giving up any of the core 4 pitching prospects-Teheran, Vizcaino, Minor, Delgado”- Buster Onley’s Twiiter.

    What a roller coaster. From nightmares of losing Minor/Delgado/Simmons for a year and a half rental… back to refusing let go of one single lefty who coughed up the #5 starting job when it was his to lose in Spring Training?

    Next year, I’m turning off Twitter from July 15 until August 1.

  301. 301
    Nate Says:

    So, how confident are we that we can resign Tommy and Jair if we are keeping all of those guys?

  302. 302
    Walker Says:

    297 – Are you HIGH?? Please never become an MLB general manager.

    281- Yeah it kind of reminds me of the people who don’t believe in climate change. How do you not value OBP?

    Dream Lineup.

    Prado
    Chipper
    McCann
    Pence
    Freeman
    Uggla
    Heyward
    Gonzo

  303. 303
    Bubdylan Says:

    Nate, I’m with you on #300. If they indeed refuse to let go of even one Minor/Teheran/Delgado/Vizcaino, I’m thinking Frank envisions a rotation totally on the cheap. It’s not a terrible idea, assuming they spend the savings on bats over the next three winters. But that’s more than I’d assume.

  304. 304
    Walker Says:

    The odds of Minor/Teheran/Delgado/Vizcaino all becoming good are very low. We need to take a risk and trade one of these guys while they are still coveted.

  305. 305
    Bubdylan Says:

    Walker, you could use that same logic to conclude we need to keep all four of them to ensure we have pitching.

    That’s not really my stance, but I’m just saying.

  306. 306
    Curt Says:

    See #267 for my thoughts on the pitching. The Braves love to spend money on starting pitching. I think they could keep both.

    Prospects. In one hand you have Elvis Andrus, in the other Andy Marte. You hold on to the one guy and trade the other and who knows what will happen. Except we now know. See also “George Lombard.”

    I did read something this morning entitled the 50 worst trades of all time. Braves made it in a few times. On the good – Fred McGriff for 3 useless prospects, Smoltz for Doyle Alexander, but #7 was the fan favorite. The Tex deal.

  307. 307
    Nate Says:

    #302, Save money on the rotation, spend on bats. Eventually, they will have to pay Prado, Freeman, and Heyward more than they make right now. Another contract for McCann is down the road, too. Also, this doesn’t rule out trades of these guys in the future when they have a better idea of what they have, but the reports on the Braves feelings about those 4 guys leads me to believe that all 4 are projected to be in Atlanta for a significant amount of time. I also wouldn’t be surprised to see Vizcaino in a Medlen type role where he could start or come out of the bullpen.

  308. 308
    Bubdylan Says:

    If the Twitterverse is to be believed, the Astros don’t like the Phillies’ prospects that much, including Brown, and Pence is the Braves’ for the taking for no more than Minor + lesser prospects. Now, if they don’t do that, that’s just lame.

  309. 309
    Nate Says:

    Also, does hanging onto all of these guys mean we are trading Lowe before his contract runs out? Right now, our entire rotation will be back next season, and our AAA rotation would be Teheran/Minor/Vizcaino/Delgado, unless Delgado isn’t promoted and Vizcaino is demoted.

  310. 310
    Nate Says:

    Haha, trade deadline…

  311. 311
    Bubdylan Says:

    “Also, this doesn’t rule out trades of these guys in the future when they have a better idea of what they have,”

    Well put, Nate.

  312. 312
    Nate Says:

    Bub, it looks like the organization actually really likes your boy Minor

  313. 313
    Frigatedoc Says:

    @298: Guess I never really put that “in numbers” like you do. I just see Heyward being a bust. Of course I don’t want him to, but he will NEVER live up to expectations. Remember according to all the hype he got in spring training hitting cars in the parking lot, he was supposed to be a “power hitter” who hit for average. So far he has not proved that. Plus, (as the guys have discussed on the show) there is SOMETHING about his attitude and thought process that bothers me……

    BTW…. “Frigatedoc” comes from that I am a retired US Navy Chief Hospital Corpsman who served on a Frigate and was the “Doc” on the ship.

    @301: No I am NOT high and you don’t have to worry about me becoming a MLB General Manager. It would be just like working in the medical field…..you can’t make everyone happy.

  314. 314
    Walker Says:

    @312 Thank you for your service. However, Heyward for Pence? cmon man

  315. 315
    Steve Says:

    #308 – too true. If it will really take Minor plus a lower level prospect, you’ve got to do it.

    And watching Twitter is a freaking emotional roller coaster ride today. I need to take breaks.

    Have you all seen the 10 year girl with cancer singing the National Anthem at the Ted last night? Amazing stuff: http://atmlb.com/mOQu4Q

  316. 316
    Bubdylan Says:

    Frigatedoc, Heyward may be a bust, but it would be a huge risk, with our budget constraints, to let go of the chance he reaches even 60% or so of his potential, and especially in exchange for an 8-10 million dollar player with a high BABIP and low (for the money) OBP.

    Heyward sees the strike zone too well for me to buy into his bustdom just yet. That one skill covers a lot of sins, and I think his chances of recovery are pretty decent.

  317. 317
    Frigatedoc Says:

    @313: Thank you…

    As crazy as it sounds though I guess I just want to win NOW. Pence just seems like a good fit for us and could be permanent. Look how consistent his numbers are. Remember how good Frenchy started out? The pitchers figured out how to pitch to him and he never ajusted. Guys like Mccann can hit just about any pitch thrown to him.

    If we get a guy like Pence it makes us better. WHEN we get all of our “guys” back I truly believe we are just as good as any other team out there.

    Plus I don’t want the Phillies to get him and look in our hands (Braves) and realize that all we got was Wil Nieves for a dollar….. I can see the corny vacation T-shirts now..”Giants got Beltran, Phillies got Pence, all we got was Wil Nieves for a dollar.”

  318. 318
    Walker Says:

    I just want to see one year of Heyward fully healthy. I guarantee .280 25HR 100 RBI High OBP

  319. 319
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Not if he can’t hit leftys….. remember Klesko? He could hit a ball from any right hand pitcher 600 feet…. Throw in a lefty and it was like kryptonite.

    AGAIN, I WANT Heyward to succeed! :)

  320. 320
    Bubdylan Says:

    In Klesko’s rookie year (#3 in ROY race), he OPS’d an awful .680 against lefties, a full .250 points lower than his OPS against RHP.

    By contrast, Heyward OPS’d .755 against lefties in his rookie year, a significant, but not debilitating .140 points lower than his OPS against RHP.

    Ryan Howard’s career OPS against LHP is .752, and I don’t think anyone would argue that his split deficiency has rendered him a bust.

  321. 321
    Walker Says:

    New name to watch- Marlon Byrd. Right handed centerfielder that would come cheaper than Pence.

  322. 322
    Bubdylan Says:

    Yes to Byrd. Get him.

  323. 323
    Eric Says:

    I don’t get the Jason Heyward hate. There’s a ton of it over at the DOB blog (granted, most people at the DOB hate everything, including oxygen, Gandhi, and lobster tail), but it surprises me still.

    Heyward will turn 22 in August. How many guy’s even make the majors at 22? And we’re seriously talking about him potentially being a bust?

    As a 20-year-old rookie, Heyward made the All-star team and put up an OPS of .849. Hunter Pence has done better than that only once in his career. It was in less than 500 plate appearances in Pence’s first season. At every stop in his career, Heyward has raked. In four seasons in the minors, he compiled a .317/.390/.507 batting line. He’s had a tough season, hampered by injuries, which are the only thing that could ever keep him from being a complete stud for the Braves (hopefully) for the next 15-20 years.

    And I find it hard to believe that, as fans, we can gather much about Heyward’s attitude or thought process from a handful of quotes and camera shots of the dugout. I don’t mean for this to be pointed at you, Doc. It’s more of a general rant that I should probably be posting over at DOB – only I’m afraid if I post there I’ll get death threats.

  324. 324
    Walker Says:

    Eric I completely Agree. Great Post

  325. 325
    Steve Says:

    Two high points for me today and I’m stressed out at work and stressed out about the Bravos:

    T-shirts now..”Giants got Beltran, Phillies got Pence, all we got was Wil Nieves for a dollar.”

    AND

    I don’t get the Jason Heyward hate. There’s a ton of it over at the DOB blog (granted, most people at the DOB hate everything, including oxygen, Gandhi, and lobster tail). And Eric, seriously on the lobster tail. How does one not like lobster?!?!?!

  326. 326
    Bubdylan Says:

    Eric, good post. I do think the evidence of Heyward’s immaturity/attitude problem is mounting, however it only qualifies as disappointing compared to the reputation he had for being a level headed, extra mature player. Until Heyward becomes a Bradley/Manny/Yunel degree problem, which he never will, I don’t see a big problem. But I sympathize with those who are disappointed that he seems immature. Not a personality I can see myself getting behind as a favorite player or anything.

    But whatever. His potential as a baseball-cracking beast is still there in my opinion. Injuries and sophomore slumping can easily account for what we’re seeing now. My patience with Heyward is still plenty.

    (But I’d still trade him for Mike Stanton. :) )

  327. 327
    DOB TROLLS Says:

    I’LL KILL YOU

  328. 328
    Curt Says:

    Could this be the case where Heyward is Frency and Freeman is McCann. Not to hate on Heyward, as I am apt to do, and not giving up on him as I did Frenchy. Maybe all the hype being on one guy hampers his development while allowing his good friend to prosper in his shadow to become a great player.

    Let’s see if the Braves offer early extensions to Heyward and Freeman and see if it plays out in a similar fashion.

    I’m going over to the DOB blog to post Eric’s address

    Fried lobster tails at Chops. The truth

  329. 329
    Bubdylan Says:

    If we get Upton, I ain’t watching.

  330. 330
    Walker Says:

    Can we not label Heyward with the “immature with an attitude problem” please. Because it’s just not true. His attitude has been just as good as anyone on the team.

  331. 331
    Steve Says:

    #329: Why Bub? I think he’s a classic change of scenery guy and he could be huge.

    For the record, I don’t hate Heyward. I have my opinions about what a terrible person he is (just kidding), but my frustration with him is only in relation to the sublime stretches he had last year and my corresponding expectations for this year.

  332. 332
    Bubdylan Says:

    Walker, I said there’s mounting evidence for a fairly innocuous brand of immaturity from Heyward. That’s as mild as I can make it.

    Steve, Yunel was a change of scenery guy, too. I don’t dig on ballplayers who punk out until they can get somewhere else and catch fire to validate the chip on their shoulder. I watched Upton a lot during my Rays Fan rebellion. No thanks.

    But I’m not worried. Wren won’t do it. It’s posturing.

  333. 333
    Bubdylan Says:

    btw, the cancer patient singing the anthem was awesome. She was nervous (who wouldn’t be?) but her vocal approach was so relaxed. I loved it.

  334. 334
    Frigatedoc Says:

    #330: Ditto to that Steve……

  335. 335
    Bubdylan Says:

    “Agreed, can’t see ATL signing both JJ, Hanson long-term RT @fjrabon: @ajcbraves @lfcfanatic87 I think at best we can resign one of those two”

    DOB agrees it’ll be one of Hanson & JJ at the most.

    I would augment the “Braves will spend money on pitching” argument to say Braves will spend money on pitching if they have to.

  336. 336
    Curt Says:

    That might be a good point. They will also have to sign O’venbrel at some point

  337. 337
    Bubdylan Says:

    Another thing we have in our pockets, which I don’t see mentioned much, is the return in prospects for Hanson or JJ if we keep enough pieces to replenish the rotation on the cheap.

    A year and a half to two years of JJ or Hanson on the trade market could bring us a big time hitter from somebody’s farm. Of course, that’s a good ways off. But it’s worth salivating over in bored moments.

  338. 338
    Curt Says:

    My next band is going to be called “boredly salivating”

  339. 339
    Curt Says:

    The Braves are setting up as buyers this Trade Deadline season. They have talked to the White Sox about Carlos Quentin and continued to evaluate the possibility of adding Rays’ outfielder B.J. Upton. But early Thursday evening, a Major League scout said Padres outfielder Ryan Ludwick is at the top of the Braves’ wish list. Ludwick would fill the club’s desire to add someone who could play each of the outfield positions and provide some offense. Ludwick has hit just .238 with 11 homers and a .675 OPS through his first 99 games with the Padres this year. The 33-year-old outfielder will be a free agent at the end of the season, and the Braves could acquire him now without having to part ways with the kind of prospects needed to land Quentin or Hunter Pence from the Astros.

    Read more: http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/mlb?eref=sihp#ixzz1TWl3PSs8

  340. 340
    Bubdylan Says:

    Curt, I like it. Sort of captures the last three years of my most recent long term relationship.

  341. 341
    Bubdylan Says:

    Good grief. McLouth to the DL. Cantstandya will lead off tonight. The hits just keep on comin’.

    Michael Bourn, please.

  342. 342
    Nate Says:

    Lol, McLouth to the DL. Really? It’s just a comical at this point. Wren shold just put out an add for a centerfielder. “Needs to be able to hit 8th, bat .200, steal a base every once in a while, and hit the cut off man”

    Constanza. Anybody know anything about this guy? I can’t recall having seen him play.

  343. 343
    Nate Says:

    #340, “Cantstandya”, well played, sir.

  344. 344
    Nate Says:

    Is George Sherrill our conditioning coach?

  345. 345
    Bubdylan Says:

    He’s 5 feet, 9 inches. 27 years old. Minor league OPS in the mid 700′s or so.

    I’m not even boredly salivating over this guy. And in the lead off? Come the **** on, Fredi.

    Bourn, please. Michael Bourn, Jason Bourne, Natural Born Killers, give us SOMETHING.

  346. 346
    Bubdylan Says:

    He did steal 49 bases in AA a few years back. Still…

  347. 347
    Pure Says:

    The Braves, according to sources, offered a package that included prospects they weren’t willing to dangle in front of the Mets on Carlos Beltran — but got shut down. One source who spoke with the Braves’ brass Friday came away convinced they were out of it and moving on.

    http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/page/rumblings110729/ranking-mlb-trade-chips

  348. 348
    Jo-Bu Says:

    Looks like Diory Hernandez is bricks. Braves have designated him for assignment.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/atlanta_braves/

  349. 349
    Bubdylan Says:

    “the Braves’ brass Friday came away convinced they were out of it and moving on.”

    I’ve always appreciated Wren’s lack of game playing (the anti-Towers), but in this case he should hang in there till Sunday just to keep the Phils’ price high.

  350. 350
    Jo-Bu Says:

    DOB tweet on Diory:

    SS Diory Hernandez was designated for assignment to make room on 40-man for Constanza

    http://twitter.com/#!/ajcbraves/status/97039078721208320

  351. 351
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Let’s just take a breath, gentlemen and gentlewomen…

    Mr. Heyward IS in his second season, commonly refered to as the “sophmore slump”. Something I think has been overlooked greatly due to the “repeat performance” of him hitting a homerun in his first at bat of the season.

    As a rookie, they don’t know what to expect, so what you do is less scrutinized to expectation. As a sophmore, they have an expectation based on JUST the previous year…

  352. 352
    Anne Says:

    Heading to The Ted. Go Braves…whatever players remain.

  353. 353
    Bubdylan Says:

    This is how sucktastic Fredi Gonzalez is:

    Jason (Atlanta)
    KLAW, Fredi Gonzales admitted the other day that he had no idea of the OBP of Schafer, Mclouth and Heyward and that he “thought” Schafer’s was highest. How can a GM let something like this pass in a day and age when EVERY team employs people to apply advanced statistical analysis?

    Klaw:
    (2:57 PM)
    Well, the GM is obviously fine with this. I wouldn’t be if I were an Atlanta fan, but the way that lineup is set and the way the roster is used implies that Wren is completely OK with Fredi’s (mis)management.

    ****************

    Unbelievable.

  354. 354
    Bubdylan Says:

    Cantstandya was the fastest base runner in all of AAA last year, FWIW.

  355. 355
    Anonymous Says:

    Fredi went to a sabermetric convention last year under an assumed name. He’s up an all these statistic things.

  356. 356
    Bubdylan Says:

    lol, sorry if it’s cruel to laugh, but DOB just tweeted that McLouth frigged up his abdominal on that throw to the cut off man last night. On that throw, I said out loud, “wow, he actually threw that ball with a little zing…”

    Shaking my head. Oh, Braves. Braves, braves, braves.

  357. 357
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Cantstandya sounds WAY to much like Costanza. I am scared…..

  358. 358
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Cantstandya will probably go 3 for 4 tonight with 1 HR, 1 double, and 2 stolen bases…..then Wren will say…..why do we need to make a trade when we have Cantstandya now?

    Wren needs to look across the street to the Falcons who just signed a MAJOR player today…….just sayin

  359. 359
    Bubdylan Says:

    Since Cantstandya has like half a dozen extra base hits in like 800 minor league at bats, I wouldn’t hold my breath on the homer. Or the double.

  360. 360
    Bubdylan Says:

    Has anybody offered any reasonable explanation for Wren’s ignoring of Michael Bourn, the most obvious and accessible acquisition in the history of Braves’ deadline needs?

    Hello? We’re already dealing with the Stros, know what they want from us, and our top two CF’s are both injured and can’t play baseball? Wren? What’s wrong with Michael Bourn??

  361. 361
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @359

    He doesn’t read this board.

    I thought I made a good case for Bourn in a couple of earlier posts…

    Maybe we should send him the URL…

  362. 362
    Anne Says:

    Good crowd even early for a Friday night. Braves…go fishing and stop their win streak! Go Braves!!!

  363. 363
    Curt Says:

    Bourn would be too logical. Wren will sign a light hitting infielder to boost our bench.

    I’m increasingly in the camp that he isn’t doing anything.

  364. 364
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Anne are you there to see the Gwinnett or the Atlanta Braves? ;)

  365. 365
    Anonymous Says:

    I Love you Freddie Freeman

  366. 366
    Curt Says:

    That was anonymous

  367. 367
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    I knew the Pirates were going to walk into Philly and get whacked…

    You could just see that they were beginning to “believe their press”…

  368. 368
    Anne Says:

    Frig – I’m at the MLB Braves. The Ted – where we are sadly scoreless. Also sad to see the Phils make the Pirates look like amateurs after just beating us.

  369. 369
    Anne Says:

    Leggo. My. A-Go.

  370. 370
    Walker Says:

    Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
    Sources: #Phillies close to acquiring #Astros’ Pence. Deal expected to be completed tonight. #tradedeadline #MLB

    SIGH

  371. 371
    Walker Says:

    Ryan Ludwick bores me. Hopefully we get Upton or Byrd.

  372. 372
    Curt Says:

    Maybe Bourn was the target all along?

  373. 373
    Bubdylan Says:

    If the Phils get Pence and the Braves get some low impact OF and scrub reliever, the Phillies will win the division by 10+ games.

  374. 374
    Steve Says:

    It’s got to be demoralizing for the players, too? Don’t you think? Cannot believe Phillies are going to get Pence.

  375. 375
    Bubdylan Says:

    Steve, yes, absolutely. This group cares a lot about winning, and their organization is (potentially) letting them down.

    Of course some of it can’t be helped. The Phillies are an absolute juggernaut, and the odds of catching them even if we got Pence and they got squat were not great, in my opinion. But if it goes the other way, my goodness, what a bust.

    And it would leave the Phillies in great shape to be very, very good next year as well. Blink twice and half our window will be gone.

  376. 376
    Walker Says:

    These last 5 games are evidence that we need ALOT of help. Whats the point of going to the playoffs without the ability to win the World Series. This is frustrating. I want a championship!!

  377. 377
    Curt Says:

    See: *Payroll restrictions*

    It’s going to be Ludwick. I guarantee.

  378. 378
    Bubdylan Says:

    Thanks, Dan. You just brought my uber crap evening back down to regular crap.

  379. 379
    Pure Says:

    BREAKING: Hunter Pence removed from Astros’ game, headed to Phillies in blockbuster trade.

  380. 380
    Bubdylan Says:

    Braves were right to refuse to top that offer from Philly. But it is still agonizing news.

  381. 381
    Nate Says:

    They add yet another All-Star, we will add another outfielder hitting below the National League Average. Seems about right.

  382. 382
    Walker Says:

    Sad thing is the Phillies really didn’t give that much up.

  383. 383
    Bubdylan Says:

    Another nice outing by Beachy. Love that guy.

  384. 384
    Nate Says:

    #373, Steve, I absolutely think it does. How can it not?

    Chipper had a quote the other day about if they continue to pitch (the Braves) they will keep winning. Well, Chip, it would be real super if we could help our pitchers out every once in a while. Isn’t that part of the team concept? Helping each other out and not relying on one part to carry the load. Right now we’re just supporting what I’m sure Boras is already telling JJ and Tommy, “you will never win 20 games in ATL, and good luck being making the All-Star team every year with that offense.” A lot of contracts are incentive driven, and those bonuses definitely matter to the players.

  385. 385
    Nate Says:

    #381, they really ddidn’t. The Astros are like their second AAA team.

  386. 386
    Nate Says:

    *didn’t

  387. 387
    Bubdylan Says:

    Not to sound – whatever – but we’re 2-hitting the Marlins and Dan’s smash puts him at a 20 game hitting streak. And his July OPS will close out between .950 and 1.000

    Go Braves.

  388. 388
    Nate Says:

    Anyone else wanna kidnap Infante and leave him on Fredi’s doorstep?

  389. 389
    Pure Says:

    Jon Heyman: Astros prefer to do Pence deal with Braves, but Atlanta very protective of big-time pitching prospects.

    I wonder what was on the table?

  390. 390
    Bubdylan Says:

    Man, Alex Gonzalez is awful at hitting. Just, so bad.

  391. 391
    Nate Says:

    Has a team ever won a World Series with potential 4-5 guys in the lineup hitting below .220 or .230?

  392. 392
    Walker Says:

    @384 you are so right. The Phillies organization must be blackmailing the Astros.

    Jayson Stark
    Pence trade goes down on one-year anniversary of last #Phillies-#Astros trade, for Roy Oswalt.

  393. 393
    Bubdylan Says:

    Cantstandya with a ribbie!

  394. 394
    Nate Says:

    They could have an outfield of Victorino, Pence, and Brown(if he gets it going) for the next 5+ years. I hate them.

  395. 395
    Curt Says:

    We just need a better trading partner than the Royals

  396. 396
    QC Bravo Says:

    So the Giants get Beltran, Phillies get Pence, and Braves get Buster Olney saying they are not as close on Pence b/c “they don’t value OBP very much.” Sure, why would you value the ability to not make outs? So do I need to put away my Braves Michael Bourn jersey? Should I cancel the Upton jersey order? Or I will just put my head in a waffle iron – Phillies strike again.

  397. 397
    Curt Says:

    Not to not hate that the Phils got Pence, but their infield is 800 years old and they just traded away their 1st baseman of the future. They have the money, but they are going to have to spend a lot of it on replacing that entire group. Add to that, they have traded away their top 3 pitching prospects the last 2 years to the Astros and Blue Jays and their rotation is aging quickly. I concede nothing to those guys. Even with Pence. We have so much more young talent.

    And Brown has shown me nothing.

  398. 398
    Bubdylan Says:

    Another RBI for Freddie Not-Much-Upside Freeman.

  399. 399
    Pure Says:

    CSN Philadelphia reported that minor-league pitcher Josh Zeid and a player to be named will complete the four-player package.

  400. 400
    Bubdylan Says:

    Curt? You okay?

  401. 401
    Curt Says:

    Brain cloud

  402. 402
    Curt Says:

    That was much more a future prognostication as opposed to a 2011 prediction

  403. 403
    Nate Says:

    I will go back and agree with what Bub said earlier about Upton. I used to live down there and watched a lot of their games. He has really fallen since 2008. He has been really inconsistent for almost 3 years. And when I think about that, I pretty much realize ’08 was a fluke. Add that to the fact that he is a complete jerk and dogs it constantly. His effort makes Escobar look like Martin prado. The guy has so much talent, but the 6 inches between his ears are all out of whack. The Rays have a great clubhouse and a great players manager, kind of like the Braves, and he still can’t play hard for them. He’s a jerk. Don’t want him.

  404. 404
    Walker Says:

    @396

    Yeah but they will be contending for a World Series the next 3 to 4 years. Utley and Howard are only 32 and 31 years old.

  405. 405
    Bubdylan Says:

    “Brain Cloud.”

    Oh my, did I find the one other male fan of Joe Versus the Volcano in the universe?

    Oh, incidentally, I am stuck on watching Lives of Others. The explanation would throw the board into sympathy mode, which I don’t want to do. But it’s still at my apartment and will be watched.

  406. 406
    Nate Says:

    Where does Pence bat in their lineup?

  407. 407
    Bubdylan Says:

    3 hitting the Marlins’ offense without using Venters or Kimbrel. A good night. At least, in that respect. Sigh.

  408. 408
    Bubdylan Says:

    G’night peeps. Go Braves.

  409. 409
    Pure Says:

    When Constanza and Heyward gave each other high fives after the last out, it looked like David and Goliath.

  410. 410
    Frigatedoc Says:

    The Phillies get Pence…..

    Time to start printing the T-shirts! :(

  411. 411
    Curt Says:

    I know he can get the job, but can he do the job.

    Bub, you might be the 4th person I have ever met who has actually seen Joe vs. the Volcano

  412. 412
    Steve Says:

    #395 – So effing true.

    I really don’t get the Braves on the Pence deal. ESPECIALLY seeing what the Phils gave up, we could have given Minor and a bunch of second tier prospects. I just don’t get not doing it.

  413. 413
    Steve Says:

    On a related note, Ron Gant is on the desk on MLB Network right now. Talk about something I don’t get …

  414. 414
    QC Bravo Says:

    Joe vs The Volcano is a classic … what’s the confusion? In fact, they switched the lights at work last week, leading to a full week of Joe v Volcano references.

  415. 415
    Anonymous Says:

    Marlon Byrd Please

  416. 416
    Steve Says:

    Pence will bat 5th.

  417. 417
    Steve Says:

    Pence’s career splits against RH and LH pitching:

    RH: .290
    LH: .290

    Good Lord. And he’s under contract until 2014. I get that he’s not Carl Crawford, but for eff’s sake, who’s our future CF?!?!?

  418. 418
    QC Bravo Says:

    under control, I think, not contract, right? I think his arb numbers are estimated at 10-14 over the time period

  419. 419
    Curt Says:

    They aren’t going to make a big move. They don’t want to be on the hook for the money. I’m convinced of that. They are going to trade a couple of low lever prospects for Ludwick and that’s going to be the move.

    Do they honestly think that can make a trade and someone isn’t going to ask for one of those pitchers? Don’t they target one of those guys and determine that he will be the piece they move? And the plan is to wait until the off season to move one of them? What good does that do us now?

  420. 420
    Nate Says:

    #416, $. Lowe and Chipper. I don’t think we can do much until we know Lowe is gone and what Chipper is going to do after this season. I love Chipper, but if he is a true Brave and he wants to come back and win it all, he should ask for a pay cut. He is way overpaid for his value. Again, I love Chipper. Probably my favorite Brave of all time, but he is really old for 14 million a year. We could obviously really use that money, the KK money, the Lowe money, and the McLouth money for other things. Hopefully Wren has learned his lesson on all 4 because those contacts are killing us.

    Is JJ Hardy out of the question?

  421. 421
    Walker Says:

    My Dream Headline tomorrow.

    “Dodgers change Mind Last Minute and Deal Kemp to Braves.”

  422. 422
    Nate Says:

    I would have given them Minor for Pence, and it is disappointing to realize he would be a Brave if our organization felt the same way. Maybe they know something I don’t. Who knows?

    I’m remembering this feeling from last year’s trade deadline (Steve and Bub cover your eyes now) when we gave up Yunel for a guy who doesn’t look like a major leaguer at the plate. Then we added Ankiel and Farnsworth. I felt like we were a worse team after last year’s trade deadline.

  423. 423
    Steve Says:

    Do you know what will be even more depressing to me than Ludwick? Coco Crisp. And it could absolutely happen.

  424. 424
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    @422

    If we get him we will just Cheerio for him and hope for the best…

  425. 425
    Nate Says:

    Wren has to be pretty pissed about what the Astros asked us for and what they took from the Phillies.

  426. 426
    Nate Says:

    Bourn
    Prado
    Chip
    Mac
    FF
    Uggla
    JHey
    Gonzo…
    P

    Just do it.

  427. 427
    Bubdylan Says:

    Astros have us absolutely over the barrel for Bourn now. Would not be surprised if they hold out for the exact package (2 of our four plus a lesser guy) they wanted for Pence, and what can we do about it besides settle for Upton or Byrd? My hope for getting Bourn is very dim. Ed Wade’s last stand. Braves can’t seem to buy a break.

  428. 428
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Well one bright side is that you know what to talk about on tomorrow nights show! We will a know the outcome by then!

  429. 429
    Curt Says:

    Anyone see that the Phils are talking to the White Sox about Thome?

  430. 430
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Maybe the Braves are just “throwing in the towel” and try to win with just what they have….

  431. 431
    Walker Says:

    From Jayson Stark at ESPN:

    “So teams that have spoken with Atlanta, even in the wake of the disappointment in losing out in the Pence bid-a-thon Friday, say the Braves have no plans to do something this weekend that they wouldn’t have done last week or last month — just because Rumor Central readers everywhere think they need to make a deal.”

    I really don’t get this team

  432. 432
    Anonymous Says:

    Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
    A strong belief in the ATL organization that the package they offered for Pence was markedly better than deal HOU made with Philadelphia.

  433. 433
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Is there bad blood between the Astros and and Braves??

    Are the Astros STILL mad about that play Walt Weiss did with “The Creature” in the Divisional Playoffs?

  434. 434
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Everyone who is a contender has made deals but the Braves….

    Oh, except for Wil Nieves who Yahoo Sports describes as a “warm body” until Mccann comes back.

    Looks likes Furcal is going to the Cardinals…..

    Think maybe now the Dodgers are unloading and MAY deal Kemp?

  435. 435
    Anonymous Says:

    “Is there bad blood between the Astros and and Braves??”

    My money’s on good blood between the Astros and Phillies.

  436. 436
    Bubdylan Says:

    #434 was Bub.

  437. 437
    Bubdylan Says:

    And by “good blood” I mean pretty much collusion.

  438. 438
    Walker Says:

    Conspiracy I tell you!!!! Conspiracy!!!!

  439. 439
    Bubdylan Says:

    Yeah, it’s pretty far fetched and wacky to think something’s goofy about turning down the best offer and shipping talent to your ex-team in the months before everybody knows you’ll be fired.

  440. 440
    Bubdylan Says:

    His name is Dan Uggla!!!!

    21 game hitting streak. 4-zip, good guys.

  441. 441
    Walker Says:

    Indians get Ubaldo

  442. 442
    Walker Says:

    Wish List:

    Bourn
    Willingham
    Balfour

  443. 443
    Curt Says:

    Coming:

    No one

  444. 444
    Curt Says:

    Some interesting info:

    The Braves are working hard to acquire an outfield bat, but there are “still no dance partners” according to ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick (on Twitter).

    The Astros sent $2MM (not $1MM) to the Phillies in the Pence deal, according to ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark (on Twitter). The Phillies won’t have to pay the luxury tax this way, Stark reports.

    The Braves would have included Mike Minor in a deal for Pence, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (on Twitter).

    One executive tells Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports that the Braves have six untouchable players (Twitter link).

    The Marlins intend to keep Leo Nunez, Omar Infante, Ricky Nolasco and Randy Choate, according to Olney (on Twitter). They’ve gotten tons of hits on those players, Olney reports.

  445. 445
    Walker Says:

    Bottom Line: We need a centerfielder.

  446. 446
    Walker Says:

    BillShanks
    Heard the Astros are pushing for Braves catching prospect Christian Bethancourt to lead any deal for outfielder Michael Bourn.

    I hope Wren isn’t stingy with a catching prospect. I don’t think we need a catcher anytime soon.

  447. 447
    john j Says:

    408, too bad they are hitting like Moe and Curly.

  448. 448
    john j Says:

    419, Many would question your line about Chipper “if he is a true Brave”. Who is a truer Brave? He has reworked his contracts before to accomodate this team that is run on the cheap. He is about winning and I don’t begrudge him his paydays. Rip on Lowe if you like as he did nothing past or present to deserve his pay.

  449. 449
    Steve Says:

    I don’t remember who mentioned it earlier, but the Braves are totally over a barrel with Bourn. The Astros can just sit back and watch as 4+ teams bid for him.

    And, the more I read, I don’t blame the Braves about how this is turning out. They freaking offered Minor for Pence. A ML ready pitcher plus some other guys. And they take two unproven prospects from the Phils. Total effing screw job. And it makes the Braves, imo, look more conservative than they’ve been at this trade deadline.

  450. 450
    Walker Says:

    Ed Wade is helping his old team out. The Braves are one of the most Hated on teams in the Majors.

  451. 451
    David Says:

    445 – we have mccann under contract through 2013…

  452. 452
    Frigatedoc Says:

    On a brighter note…….Braves win!!! Starting pitching is back! (except for Lowe)

  453. 453
    Walker Says:

    @450
    I guarantee McCann will be a Brave for his entire career.

  454. 454
    Frigatedoc Says:

    I agree Walker

  455. 455
    Walker Says:

    JIM BOWDEN
    Braves refuse to put both Delgado and Vizcaino in Bourn deal…but phone lines burning in the Peachtree State #TRADES

    As much as I want him he is not worth Delgado and Vizcaino.

  456. 456
    Bubdylan Says:

    Why is Ed Wade giving us the same middle finger Towers gave us in the Peavy negotiations? Does Frank Wren piss people off or something? Wade is being absurd.

  457. 457
    Bubdylan Says:

    Nate, I’m so aggravated with this Ed Wade B.S. that I could almost forgive B.J. Upton if he just came here and played well.

    However, the thought of sending Yunel down the road for attitude problems and then picking up B. J. Upton the next year still gives me the pip (Brit Lit reference for the win…)

  458. 458
    Bubdylan Says:

    How long do we think Fredi will let Cantstandya ground out at the top of the order before he puts an on-base guy up there? My guess: for as long as he’s on the roster.

  459. 459
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Just saw that the Braves and Marlins are on talks for Omar Infante.

  460. 460
    Curt Says:

    Saw that too. I’m all for it at the right price, but please, please, please give me more than that.

  461. 461
    Nate Says:

    Pastornicky batting .435 through 11 games for Gwinnett. September addition?

  462. 462
    Kate Says:

    Braves get Bourn for Schafer, Oberholtzer, Clemens and Juan Abreu.

  463. 463
    QC Bravo Says:

    Frank Wren – good job. Bourn’s probably a 350 OBP player – that makes him 3rd best on the team after Mac and FF. The avg will come down with such a high BABIP and no power, but to get an acutal big league starting CF for Schafer and none of the big prospects — I like it.

  464. 464
    Bubdylan Says:

    Frank Wren is a BEAST.

  465. 465
    Anne Says:

    Plus, he’s already been proven in a triolgy of blockbuster movies. Revenue!
    Wait…wrong Bourne.

  466. 466
    QC Bravo Says:

    Maybe Braves agreed to drop the Ed Wade – Philly collusion charge as part of this deal.

  467. 467
    Danny Says:

    I love Frank Wren! I rescind all other comments from earlier this weekend and this morning. Ha ha!

  468. 468
    Curt Says:

    FINALLY

  469. 469
    Bubdylan Says:

    Seriously, raise your hand if you stood by Wren’s ability through all of this.

    *doesn’t raise hand*

  470. 470
    Bubdylan Says:

    I am very, very happy with this.

    1. I’m probably alone here, but I had completely given up on Schafer.
    2. A REAL LEAD OFF! AFTER ALL THIS TIME!
    3. This benefits the Braves even more than it would a normal team because Fredi can NOT get the top of the line up correct without having it absolutely spelled out for him. This spells it out.
    4. We gave up SQUAT for this level of player. Totally defeated the Phillies in this deadline race.

    You guys realize that Wren has now officially crafted a great pitching rotation, given us the slugger we’ve been missing, AND given us the lead off guy we’ve been missing all this time. Not to mention the closer issues we struggled with for years, he solved with Wagner and by hanging on to Kimbrel.

    All these issues he solved with STAR level players, all while keeping the farm at an uber high level, and all while operating on half the budget of the big boys.

    Just no words for how satisfied I am with Frank Wren right now. Sorry I doubted him. And whoever gave me all that sh*t about Wren being good (you know, before I waffled), hope you’ll drop in and do your own waffling now.

    Go Braves! World Series.

  471. 471
    Bubdylan Says:

    5. Wren did all this with Bourn while being at a total disadvantage after the Phillies got Pence.

  472. 472
    Chris Says:

    Wow after losing out on Pence, Bourne is exaclty what we need. A true leadoff hitter, he leads the majors in steals, the braves wont know how to act with all that speed! Not to mention he leads the league in hits since June 1 and is hitting .338 in that stretch, 4th in the NL. I am so happy right now, cant wait for the show tonight guys!

  473. 473
    Bubdylan Says:

    In our all-healthy line up, the only non-all stars are defensive wiz Alex Gonzalez, and future all star Freddie Freeman:

    1. Bourn
    2. Prado
    3. Chipper
    4. Uggla
    5. McCann
    6. Freeman
    7. Heyward
    8. Gonzalez
    9. Pitchah

    Look at that. LOOK AT IT!

  474. 474
    Bubdylan Says:

    *yeah, I bunched up the lefties. You get the idea, though.

  475. 475
    Bubdylan Says:

    Astros message board loves the return for Pence, hates the return for Bourn.

    :)

  476. 476
    Walker Says:

    Amazing trade.

    Bourn
    Prado
    McCann
    Chipper
    Freeman
    Uggla
    Heyward
    Gonzo

  477. 477
    Walker Says:

    Now we need a right handed outfielder and a right handed bullpen arm.

  478. 478
    Adam Says:

    I’m really pumped about this Bourn deal. Remember our offense when Schafer was playing well? This could be the spark we need to get our offense going again.

  479. 479
    Jo-Bu Says:

    Bourn is the absolute perfect deal we could have made. I’m very happy with that.

    It doesn’t take much to wonder how much he can help this team. If we look at the success of the Braves since Schafer got up here, the Braves won most if not all of the games when Jordan was getting on base in the first inning (or really anytime). When Jordon wasn’t getting on base (as it seemed to me that he would often lose site of what they role of a lead off man is) we were losing those games. Bourn knows and loves his role as lead off man. He’s not going up there every 15-20 AB or so trying to knock the ball out of the park as we would see from Schafer. Jordan will be the the player that Michael Bourn is now and in years to come, he might be a menace to us but for right now, this season, Michael Bourn is the perfect piece.

  480. 480
    Walker Says:

    mlbbowman Mark Bowman
    Wren said he could have had Beltran or Pence if he had made a serious push for them. Says Bourn is the better fit. #Braves

    #GANGSTA GM

  481. 481
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Borrowing from @298

    “That’s the kind of value Atlanta MUST get from a couple of players per season if they want to contend on 90 million.”

    Maybe it is a case of “a couple of players per season if they want to contend on 90 million.”

    We picked up what should be our CF at least thru the end of 2012 (he is able to become a free agent, but doesn’t mean he will…)

    We have picked up/drafted what should be our starting staff for several years (and kept them during this period).

  482. 482
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    I am definitely glad to see Bourn, especially since I have been making a casefor trading for him for a while…

  483. 483
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Now if we can trade Proctor and Gonzo for Infante.

  484. 484
    Walker Says:

    I wouldn’t trade Gonzo for Infante. It wouldn’t be a smart trade. As bad as Gonzalez has been, He at least has a little power and more range than Infante.

    I just found out that Denard Span is signed through 2014. I wonder if Wren took a look at him since we would have him under more control. Boun’s agent is Boras so we will only have him for 1 1/2 seasons.

  485. 485
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Did you see Constanza’s face on the hit? He was looking triple if the fielder bobbled the ball for a second…

  486. 486
    Vinnie Says:

    I like the Bourn deal. Braves give up none of the pitching and get a better version of Schafer. However, I give Schafer credit. He’s pushed it and tried to make things happen. More than I can say for McLousy. So now…we dump Proctor, McLouth and tell Chipper to not use his oblique for the rest of 2011…Braves will be in Fat City.

  487. 487
    Pure Says:

    Wow. I just woke up and now we have Bourn! I can’t believe how Wren got that deal done. We gave away scraps!

  488. 488
    David Says:

    I love the Bourn deal. Got a great player without giving too much in return, while Houston did get a major-league ready player, which is more they can say for their Pence deal.

    In some way, this feels slightly a bit like the Teixeira trade – giving up several prospects for a player that we will have for a year and a half. I think, though, that we will get more from Bourn than we did from Tex – in a way, his speed can do more than Tex’s power bat.

  489. 489
    Walker Says:

    craigcalcaterra Craig Calcaterra
    What will suck: awesome trade deadline; possible no-hitter, but if Brett Favre farts off-key today, ESPN will go wall-to-wall with it tonite

    SO TRUE

  490. 490
    Anne Says:

    “Let’s get 12 hits and one run” is a synopsis of our whole darned season. Booo.

  491. 491
    Anne Says:

    A sweep would’ve been nice…meanwhile, Phils & Pirates tied 5-all.

  492. 492
    Nate Says:

    With what I was hearing last night I thought we had no shot an anybody, and to come away with the piece we need without giving an Atlanta bound prospect is so HUGE. I’m with Bub, I had little hope for Schafer speeding up his development. What Wren said about Jordan in the interview on the AJC page is a very fair assessment of where Jordan is right now and what the Braves actually need from their CF.

    “Michael is what we hope Jordan will be in three or four years. That’s really what it came down to. And a team that’s poised to win, we need the finished product. And that’s what Michael is. Jordan still has a chance to have a good career, because he can do a lot of things on a baseball field to excite you. But right now, with a team we feel like has a chance to be a championship team, he may not be ready to be that key ingredient that Michael is.”

    The whole interview with Wren, done by DOB, is really a great read and offers nice insight into the direction of this club. I like where this organization is going. We’re built to win now, and we have some great depth to sustain us for the future. Our team has come a long way since the Summer of ’08. Kudos to Wren.

  493. 493
    john j Says:

    Great getting Bourn. Even better news when Wren said it was the one thing they were lacking. Shows he is right on top of it.

  494. 494
    Nate Says:

    If Cantstandya’s performance today gets Proctor sent down(fingers crossed), then he is already the favorite for MVP of the 2nd half. Sorry, Dan. But in all seriousness, the guy can fly. He wouldn’t be a bad option coming off the bench late in the year. I might rather have him on the roster than McLouth. Who has more value as a 4th OFer? What will McLouth’s role be on this team?

  495. 495
    john j Says:

    Sainthood for Wren! His favorite worshipers are out in force. We forgive him for his multiple sins as he promises to only do good in the future.

  496. 496
    Chris Says:

    Looks like we could have used Bourne today, I didnt see the game but 13 hits and only 1 run?! maybe Bourne could have manufactured a run or two with his speed. He is exactly what our team needs, since it seems like most of our runs come from home runs.

  497. 497
    Bubdylan Says:

    “Braves Feeling Bourn Again” headline within one week. I’m calling it.

  498. 498
    Anne Says:

    Bourn Ultimatum: Get Me Outta Houston!

  499. 499
    Walker Says:

    @492

    You really need to stop hating on Wren and give credit where its due.

  500. 500
    john j Says:

    498, NO hate involved. And the”great getting Bourn” was totally sincere; it is a great trade.
    Overall, Wren misses more than he hits with his important transactions but he runs a good developmental minor league system. The number of good current and X-Braves continues to grow throughout the MLB. But, all in all, I think the Braves could find a better judge of talent. The Rangers still talk highly of him and his contribution to their pennant. Pirates are also happy and Lowe’s heirs are also very happy.
    A GM also has to have enough sense to keep the players they developed which means you need money so, you can’t tie up big bucks on the Lowes and McLouths of the world. It is time to start locking up the real talent on the team with new and extended contracts.

  501. 501
    Walker Says:

    I’m so tired hearing about that Tex trade. Wren wasn’t even the GM when that trade went down. And from what I’ve seen, Wren knows how to make a trade. Edgar for JJ. Bourn trade. Yunel was a mistake mainly because Bobby didn’t understand him. You can’t fault him on McClouth and without Lowe we don’t make the 2010 playoffs. I wouldn’t want any other GM.

  502. 502
    Bubdylan Says:

    I take it by “Wren Worshippers” you mean people with observation skills. Go back, position by position, and look at the team Wren inherited and compare it with the one that will take the field tomorrow. Then look at what the farm was then and what it is now. Then reflect on the money restrictions and the obstacles faced (Furcal’s agent shopping the term sheet, McLouth falling through the floor, Smoltz and Glavine public fall outs). And tell me how the hell you conclude that Frank Wren has made more bad moves than good, I mean besides the fact that you have a personal hang up with the guy based on squat doodle amount of reality.

  503. 503
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Isn’t bunting kind o a “secret”‘thing? Lowe looked like a knucklehead up there.

  504. 504
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Starting to like this Constanza guy!!

  505. 505
    G-Dawg Says:

    Captain America was awesome, you are right. In other news, last week was amazing for the Braves and Lowe still sucks.

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