Show #167: Reviewing the Braves Collapse

October 02, 2011

Show #167: Reviewing the Braves Collapse

Recapping the final week. The Parrish firing. Lowe and Heyward. And questions heading into the offseason.

Show #167 Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

86 Responses to “Show #167: Reviewing the Braves Collapse”

1
Walker Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 1:20 am
Best Moments of 2011 season

1.Freeman’s game winning hit off a Wilson

2.Uggla’s hitting streak

3.Constanza’s outburst

4.McCann’s HR to tie and another HR to win in extra’s

Worst:

The whole month of September.
2
Tumbleweeds Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 12:22 pm
…

…

…

…
3
Curt Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 2:54 pm
How soon they forget
4
Steve Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:46 pm
To my point from the show about Heyward showing improvement at the end of the year. His season BA/OBP was: .227/.319.
His September BA/OBP was: .258/.375

I’m not saying it’s great (although the OBP is damn good) but it was certainly heading in the right direction.
5
Steve Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 3:56 pm
Walker has inspired me to be a better person so here are my Best Moments of 2011:

1. The Uggla hits streak (my favorite thing, by far)
2. Freddie and all the hugging
3. The Giants sweep
4. The DBacks sweep
6
Anonymous Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 4:10 pm
best moments of 2011

5. September 5th
4. Kimbrel’s first 161 games
3. Freeman’s entire season: Are people forgetting how badly we’ve needed a first basemen these past few years?
2. Uggla hit streak
1. McCaan’s double homerun walkoff amazingness
7
Adam Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 4:11 pm
#6 was me
8
David Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 4:13 pm
It’s no news that the offense was a huge weakness for the Braves this season, even though there were bright spots. Freeman’s rookie season, Uggla’s hit streak, Chipper’s solid year.

I hate to dwell on the negative, but I think that these are some very telling stats — the tag-team performance that Uggla and McCann did this year. These two guys had only a few weeks when they were good at the same time.

Dan Uggla:
March 31 – July 4: .173 / .241 / .327 (.568 OPS), 12 HR, 29 RBI, 77 K
July 5 – Sept 28: .301 / .386 / .596 (.982 OPS), 24 HR, 53 RBI, 79 K

Brian McCann:
March 31 – July 4: .316 / .389 / .520 (.909 OPS), 14 HR, 47 RBI, 43 K
July 5 – Sept 28: .204 / .296 / .387 (.684 OPS), 10 HR, 24 RBI, 46 K
**Aug. 14 – Sept 28: .180 / .292 / .346 (.638 OPS), 6 HR, 16 RBI, 32 K

So, for the first 3 months, Uggla was terrible while McCann was his usual great self. For the final three months, Uggla was great while Mccann played very poorly — largely, I suppose, as a result of spending some time on the DL and going “cold” during that time.

Can you imagine how we’d be if McCann hit just .200 during the final month and a half of the season? Even if he had another 6 or 7 hits since coming back from the DL — especially timely hits — we might be looking forward to game 3 at Turner Field tomorrow.

I’ll end this post by acknowledging that we could point to several other players’ struggles during September — Lowe, Beachy, Venters, Kimbrel — but I really think that McCann’s struggling was a key part of our collapse.
9
Nate Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 7:09 pm
Good show, guys, and thanks for another great season of following the show. To me, this wasn’t nearly as bad as ’96 or even ’04 or ’05 when the Astros had our number. It’s an epic collapse, but I think the sting of it is lessened because now I don’t have to watch us get 2 hit in playoff games and lose by an error or a reliever walking the leadoff man.

There are a lot of questions going into the offseason. I do expect a pitcher to be traded, and I expect Derek Lowe to also be traded. Some team will take him for 3 million a year to be a #5 starter, as you guys said in the show. I would expect JJ to be the odd man out between him and Hanson. He is really the only one of the young guys to not come up through the ranks, so I don’t the organization has as much of an attachment to him. There was so much buzz around Hanson and how he was going to help solidify the rotation for years. I expect out rotation next year to be Huddy, Hanson, Beachy, Delgado, Minor/Teheran with Medlen and Vizcaino in the ‘pen as long relief/spot starters. That is still a lot of depth in case of an injury.

I agree that Gonzo will probably be back.

Where does the McLouth/KK money go next year?
10
Nate Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 7:23 pm
One guy we really missed this year was Omar Infante. He was always a guy who could come off the bench and spark the lineup. I would love it if Wren could go out and find another guy like that via FA or a trade.
11
Steve Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 8:12 pm
#8 – David, great points about Mac and Uggla and what could have been.

#9 – Nate, it’s a great question about what the money gets spent on. We’re talking about 8MM from KK and about 5MM (after the 1.5 buy out) for Nate. 13MM. And maybe add 3 more for what a team picks up on DLowe’s contract. 16MM. 3MM for raises. 5MM for bench and bullpen. Leaves 8MM for a new right fielder. I hope that’s a joke.
12
Nate Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 8:40 pm
How much of the KK/McLouth contracts this year and the Hudson/Chipper/Lowe contracts next year gets invested in the following players: Bourn, Prado, Heyward, Freddie, JJ, Medlen, Hanson, O’Flaherty, Venters, Kimbrel, Beachy, Minor, Delgado, Teheran, Vizcaino.

All those contracts are probably over 50MM of the payroll, which is mostly depressing.

Are they expect Stephen Marek to finally do something in Atlanta next year? It would be nice to finally see some return on the Teixera deal.
13
Walker Says:
October 3rd, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Wow all of these posts just makes me wonder about the potential of this team. We won 89 games with Heyward Prado, Uggla, McCann, Gonzo struggling, and half the year with a hole in CF. What if all these guys just had average or above average seasons. Not great seasons but just good consistent seasons which they are capable of. I can pretty much guarantee our pitching will be great next year but this offense is the key. I’m glad we fired Parrish because if there was any year a hitting coach negatively affected a MLB team ,it was this year. 641 runs scored is unacceptable. And it would great if we could minimize the injuries next year. I also hope Frank can acquire a dependable reliever that can give Venters and O’Flaherty rest. Medlen will be huge next year. If he was healthy this year we would still be playing. I forgot how valuable he was.
14
john j Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 9:05 am
Hope we have seen the last of Lowe; too bad it wasn’t sooner. Get a feeling that Wren couldn’t accept the fact that he screwed up on the long term deal so, Fredi just kept pitching him hoping for a turn around. Too bad the team has no ability to make changes during the season (some teams actually drop starters from the rotation and fire batting coaches during the season); if they had made these changes and others, Braves would be playing now. This ending is on Wren and Fredi.

I do hope Heyward can turn it around and gets the chance to do so.
15
Anne Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 10:02 am
Just overheard chatter at the coffee machine, complaints about the Ohio State coach. Felt good to have someone else complain about someone else’s coach/management for a while.
16
Curt Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 10:47 am
Walker, to your point, this team grossly underachieved. The injuries to JJ, Hanson, the ineffectiveness of Lowe, the offensive woes, blah, blah, blah. The talent on the field was better than the result. They won 89 games imploding in September. Who knows if they have a half way decent month where they might have ended up. It seems like a completely wasted year for the team.

I feel like a Marlins fan from 2009.
17
Mark in Memphis Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 10:57 am
I know it won’t be popular, but, while I think O’Ventrel was over used some by Fredi, it is hard to fault him too much.

Harken back to the begining of the season. SO many screams on the board whenever Sherril, Linebrink or Proctor came into a game… but since the bullpen basically consisted of those three and O’Ventrel (- reference my thoughts on faulting Wren for not providing “parts” -), what was Fredi supposed to do if the game was close.

We scored 2 or fewer in 34%-ish of our games (about 54 games – which doesn’t take into account those that were close that got more than 2 runs late).
18
Mark in Memphis Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 2:21 pm
I think you missed the point of Wren’s comments on Heyward. It is something I seem to remember Chipper saying something about when discussing Heyward. Some key excerpts from Wren:

“Jason made some progress this season; he’s got to continue to make progress. And he’s going to be in a battle unless he continues to progress at a good rate.”

“There’s a general consensus that the reason guys sometimes struggle their second year is not that they lost their ability, it’s the league adjusted and they didn’t.”

“So as we go forward, we’ve got to look at what it takes for him to make those adjustments.”

“he’s worked on mechanically and tried to accomplish….He’s worked hard at it, but he’s not there yet.”

We aren’t going to let you start for us in right field if you don’t learn how to make adjustments. If you have to work on stuff, you will either do it in the cage playing part-time or in the minors…
19
Mark in Memphis Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
Looks like we rid ourselves just in time:

Astros’ Jordan Schafer charged with felony marijuana possession

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/mlb/story/2011-10-04/astros-jordan-schafer-charged-with-felony-marijuana-possession?utm_source=bleacherreport.com&utm_medium=referral#ixzz1ZqB6jnjs
20
Tim in Orlando Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 4:11 pm
Nothing can beat those fall baseball blues (and lord knows the Braves fans have’em) than thought of spring time in Florida. Just received the “tentative” 2012 Braves Spring Training Schedule from Disney today:

Mar 3 Tigers 1:05 PM
Mar 6 Nationals 1:05 PM
Mar 9 Mets 1:05 PM
Mar 10 Yankees 1:05 PM
Mar 11 Blue Jays 1:05 PM
Mar 14 Nationals 6:05 PM
Mar 16 Astros 6:05 PM
Mar 17 Blue Jays 1:05 PM
Mar 18 Orioles 1:05 PM
Mar 19 Cardinals 1:05 PM
Mar 22 Marlins 1:05 PM
Mar 23 Mets 1:05 PM
Mar 25 Astros 1:05 PM
Mar 28 Yankees 1:05 PM
Mar 30 Astros 6:05 PM
Mar 31 Tigers 1:05 PM
Apr 1 Phillies 1:05 PM
Apr 2 Astros 12:00 PM

Much better than last year when it seemed like we played the Mets every other game. Get to play the Yankees twice, Tigers twice, Cardinals once, and Phillies once. Four of the eight playoff teams. Strange, no Tampa Bay Rays? Also no Red Sox this year. Do get the Orioles which is rare. Three night games. Four Astros games – ugh!

Can’t wait for camp to open and to see what “changes” we have on the club.
21
Mark in Memphis Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 5:21 pm
Curt, Ham & Steve

A man after your own heart:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/873518-terry-francona-why-he-is-a-perfect-fit-to-manage-the-atlanta-braves
22
Frigatedoc Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 5:34 pm
@19

To steal a quote about Schafer.

“At the Cheesecake Factory at 12:38 a.m. Nope, he wasn’t totally stoned at all.”
23
john j Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 6:05 pm
19, JS should move to Boulder, CO. NP
24
Nate Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
#22 awesome
25
Steve Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
Tim – thanks for posting the schedule. Love it. It does help with the “there’s always next year which we need to embrace.”
26
Steve Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 10:39 pm
The Schafer thing is kind of funny if only because it’s so awful. And what a waste. Do you think he rebounds from this? Do the Astros keep him? If not, will someone sign him? It’s not like he was tearing it up in Houston. The only thing he’s got going for him is he’ll be cheap for the next few years. And he’s a terrific person to invite to a party.
27
Nate Says:
October 4th, 2011 at 11:52 pm
I guess Jordan’s problem is he’s better at hitting a joint…

Maybe the bong hits were slowing his swing down…

It’s probably hard to hit when your eyes are already half way closed…

Hey Astros, you got nothing for Oswalt, Berkman, Pence, or Bourn. Congratulations.
28
Nate Says:
October 5th, 2011 at 12:03 am
Curtis Granderson is an absolute STUD. It’s hard to fathom that there were ever rumors of a Lowe/Granderson deal.
29
ham Says:
October 5th, 2011 at 8:30 am
I guess Jordan couldn’t get behind the “don’t get too high or too low” philosophy of Fredi and Bobby. At least part of it.
30
Steve Says:
October 5th, 2011 at 10:17 am
#27 and #29 – awesome

And yes Nate – the Lowe for Granderson thing is nothing but absurd in retrospect.
31
Bubdylan Says:
October 5th, 2011 at 1:23 pm
Ham, ya made me laugh.

Also got a chuckle out of running into an ESPN article from late September on Longoria calling out the Rays fans for not showing up. The article wasn’t funny, but in the comment section underneath the week-old column: one comment. From a Yankee fan. You thought the Braves had it bad…
32
Bubdylan Says:
October 5th, 2011 at 1:30 pm
*Nate’s comments also funny.

Now that Jordan has entered recidivism proper (naw sir, that’s one bonehead name, but that ain’t me anymore), I’m going out on a limb and saying Heyward’s admittedly better guarded and less destructive, yet likewise funky little attitude will cause a big scene before it’s all said and done. Not drugs, no. Just trouble. Yeah, my link between Jordan and Heyward is weak, but I’m stickin’ with it.

In other words, I just dropped by to cause controversy.
33
Nate Says:
October 5th, 2011 at 5:11 pm
Good to see ratings are shaping another baseball postseason. The Yanks/Tigers play at 8pm every time, but the Rays finish 2 games in the span of 24 hrs. They Rays went into Monday’s game @5 pm with the series tied 1-1, and by 5 pm on Tuesday they were eliminated from the playoffs. Yes, the Rangers were in the same situation, but it is still completely ridiculous.
34
Steve Says:
October 5th, 2011 at 11:06 pm
Here’s a tease for you…

Just finished taping an interview with David O’Brien. Great stuff about all of Frank’s comments last week (lots on Heyward, where DOB all but freaks out on us, lots on Prado, lots on Lowe, lots on the fan’s relationship to Fredi, lots on Hanson and JJ). The show will posted on Sunday.
35
David Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 9:32 am
#34 — great! looking forward to hearing DOB and his thoughts on everything. always a good listen.
36
Steve Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 10:20 am
I think this is a good thing. http://tinyurl.com/3en3oyj At least they know how pissed we are.
37
Mark in Memphis Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 12:21 pm
@26

No.

I think he gets suspended, again. I think there is a possibility that the Astros unconditionally release him. Do they really want his influence in the minors? Or do they really want to send the message to their young players that they can get away with something like that and still play baseball from them?
38
Mark in Memphis Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 12:23 pm
@37

Does this put him in the MLB “drug program” since he technically “he didn’t test positive” in an MLB test at this point?
39
Steve Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
#38 – Great question. I would doubt it’s a violation of the MLB drug program. Is pot even on the list of stuff you get suspended for?
40
Mark in Memphis Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 2:31 pm
Steve, you will love, then hate/disagree with, then love this article:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/880788-has-fredi-gonzalez-become-a-lame-duck-manager

Ham will love, then disagree with, then love….

Curtis will agree with the gist of the article and where it is coming from, but will hate it anyway (he hates everything)…
41
Vinnie Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 2:54 pm
Interview with DOB? So 8 minutes on the Braves and 45 minutes on Sons of Anarchy, Breaking Bad and Curb reviews. Then a plug for Daddy Dz BBQ. Awesome…
42
john j Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 5:44 pm
40, thx for the article; good reading despite the mistakes (trading Gonzo, etc.). Personally, I think Wren was asleep at the wheel when he hired Fredi and during September he couldn’t possibly have had any meetings with Fredi. So, Wren fires the hitting coach after all the harm has been done. Big deal.
43
Steve Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 8:58 pm
Oh, Vinnie – don’t be a hater. And, to be clear, it’s 9 minutes on the Braves and 60 minutes on an REM retrospective.
44
Nate Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 11:42 pm
I’m glad DOB released the rest of the Wren interview because Wren really tells it how it is. I like that he recognizes that the coaches and players are equally to blame. I also like that he calls out the veterans. Chipper blaming the collapse on the youth is complete garbage. Chipper had his fair amount of first pitch groundouts during that 9-18 stretch. Accountability seems to be really lacking among these players and coaches, and there always seems to be an excuse. Those aren’t characteristics of a winner.

AL East 0-2 in the NLDS. Overrated?
45
Nate Says:
October 6th, 2011 at 11:43 pm
*or ALDS…
46
Curt Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 7:40 am
1 down, 1 to go. Just got to have the Phils lose tonight and all is right with the world.

…..except for the fact that the Dream are down 0-2 in the WNBA finals. Another championship eludes Atlanta.
47
Steve Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 8:03 am
#46 – Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
48
john j Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 8:42 am
I have to give credit to Wren; he is smooth. A good BS’er can spread that blame around. But, where was he as the hitting got worse and worse. Hitting coaches can be discharged during a season and a new field Manager’s performance can be discussed DURING a season to make adjustments. Most expensive mistakes were KK, McLouth and the long Lowe contract; what kind of team would the Braves have had on the field with some of that cash? Wren should enter Georgia politics; he is THAT convincing. But, “you can’t fool all the people, all the time.”
49
Nate Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 9:19 am
#48, I’m guessing he didn’t want to fire anyone in the middle of the season. The whole that’s not the Brave way concept maybe came into play. Frank is part of the problem: 13 MM for KK/McLouth, 16 MM for Lowe, another 13 MM for a player that might play 100 games in a season. I was just glad to hear someone in the organization admit to all the problems this team had without tipping a cap or finding a lame excuse. He even cited examples of the offensive suckiness, such as the Detwiller game and the Chris Capuano game.

Sorry about the Dream, Curt.

The Yanks lost and they lost with A Rod striking out. Amesome.
50
Curt Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:34 am
Even sadder is that I actually watched part of the 4th quarter of game 2 and watched them blow a 9 point lead. I should be put down.
51
Steve Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 1:12 pm
#50 – Curt, that is hard for me to wrap my head around. I gotta tell you. Here I thought all your Dream jokes were clever satire. Now I see it’s something much darker.

I really don’t get all the FW bashing. Let’s talk about some of the players/contract brought up:

Lowe and KK: At the end of the 2007 season, the starting 5 was Hudson, Chuck James, Buddy Carlyle, Kyle Davies, Jo Jo/Todd Redmond. It was an unmitigated disaster. I have no issue with these two signings. Yes, he overpaid and for too long, but that’s how you get these guys in the current FA climate.

McLouth: I will accuse anyone of being a total revisionist if you say that was a bad trade at the time. Nate’s line the year before we got him was .276 .356 .497 and that includes 46 doubles and 23 steals.

Chipper: That deal had to be done. The Glavine and Smoltz departures were nothing short of debacles. I’m not saying his contract was more than it should be, but it was the cost of doing business.
52
Nate Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
At least we didn’t do the AJ Burnett 90 MM/5 yr deal. I thought we got D Lowe and KK after 2008, though. I think Buddy and Chuck may have still been around, but I think Campillo was also a part of that bunch. Regardless, it was an atrocious rotation, and if I remember correctly Huddy and JJ were the only ones to return. With McLouth we really gave up nothing, but the KK signing was a gamble considering his contact is about a tenth of our payroll and it sounds like the organization didn’t do their homework on that one.
53
Steve Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 2:28 pm
Dammit Nate – you and your facts. You’re correct. Lowe and KK signed during the 2008 off-season. But the rotation was still an atrocity: After Hudson and JJ, it was Campillo, Jo Jo and Charlie Morton. And the team won a paltry 72 games in 2008.
54
Kate Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 2:39 pm
Huddy was out for most of the 2009 season because of TJ surgery.
55
Steve Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
You tell ‘em, Kate!

Also, Kate, a long overdue congratulations for winning the ABT fantasy bb league.
56
Walker Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
Frank Wren is a good GM. He made a mistake hiring Fredi, but I agree with Steve that nobody knew how bad KK and Lowe were going to be. Lowe was coming off a good season and was going to be a groundball pitcher in a pitchers park. People were praising KK as the Japanese Greg Maddux. Hindsight is 20/20. Those moves needed to be made. It’s not Frank Wren’s fault. He built a team that should win the World Series but the players, managers, and coaches didn’t execute. Bottom line. His philosophies about developing faster more athletic players and being a more patient offensive team are a relief to hear. It’s refreshing to hear the GM of your team have the same ideas you have about how the game of baseball should be played.
57
Leah Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Finally had the guts to listen to the show. No offense to you guys but the nose dive we called September put me in a very bad baseball place. For the first time ever I was ready for the off season. I wanted NO part in the playoffs this year. Just wanted an end to the heartbreak.

How about those Tigers! Love the Yanks losing in NY. Now if only the Cards can take care of the Phillies.

I also congratulate Kate on a fine fantasy league season. Next year I may not allow my 10 year old to make so many decisions. We’ll see…he’s on probation.
58
Pure Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 6:37 pm
@57 I’m not there yet. Maybe after the Phillies crash out I’ll listen to the podcast.
59
Frigatedoc Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 10:55 pm
Wow…… Phillies look like the Braves right now…. How sweet it is!!
60
Leah Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:05 pm
I agree Doc! 2 outs to go!
61
Pure Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:08 pm
OK, time to listen to the show now…
62
Walker Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
The Phillies did this to themselves. If they just let us win 2 games at the end of the season they could be in the NLCS. What goes around comes around.
63
Walker Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:13 pm
The faces in Citizens Bank brings joy to my life. #Don’t judge me
64
Leah Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:28 pm
No judgement here…I will be watching the replay everytime I get sad during the offseason. Poor Howard. Good thing he has the entire off season the get that ankle checked out.
65
Walker Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:28 pm
I do think it’s ridiculous that MLB has a 5 game series. A 5 game series in baseball is a coin flip. A 7 game series is much more reasonable.
66
Steve Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:33 pm
THRILLED that the Phils are out. And how about that play by Fookie in the 8th?Unbelievable. And Howard crumpling to the ground to end the game added a strange twist to it. Still can’t believe it.
67
Leah Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:36 pm
Howard writhing in pain half way to 1st was poetic. Nothing against the guy…except that he kills us and he gets paid as much as our entire roster.
68
Walker Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:49 pm
I wish Howard the Best. We need good karma for next year.
69
Bubdylan Says:
October 7th, 2011 at 11:50 pm
Can’t believe how much pain relief there is in a Phillie flop. Sports is so weird.
70
Curt Says:
October 8th, 2011 at 12:01 am
It really does make me feel so much better. Let Philly and NY wallow in it for a little while.
71
Bubdylan Says:
October 8th, 2011 at 12:11 am
The five game series is the only thing in baseball lamer than using the All Star game to pick home field. It’s hard enough to advance the best teams using seven games.

That said, this year it is glorious.
72
Nate Says:
October 8th, 2011 at 12:50 am
Halladay, Lee, Hamels, Oswalt…
73
Bubdylan Says:
October 8th, 2011 at 1:01 am
Blanton. Don’t forget Blanton.
74
Danny Says:
October 8th, 2011 at 7:11 am
After last night, I finally feel like I can watch baseball again.
75
Nate Says:
October 8th, 2011 at 8:55 am
Every Braves’ pitcher should be required to listen to Chris Carpenter’s postgame interview last night. He talked about attacking the zone early in the count to get them swinging. That way they know if they take pitches they’ll be down in the count 0-2 or 1-2. He said that strategy got them swinging early in pitch counts, and he was able to get a lot of groundballs. The man also had NO WALKS by using this approach.
76
Steve Says:
October 8th, 2011 at 1:44 pm
#69 – All true.
77
Steve Says:
October 8th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
It’s kinda funny (and by that I mean awful), looking at the titles of Shows #163 – 167, starting with the oldest in the top left corner of the homepage. It really kinda sums it up in its horrible glory.
78
Bubdylan Says:
October 9th, 2011 at 12:35 am
Steve, #77 is great. Wish it went down a couple more to where we were doing okay. But that might be too sad…
79
john j Says:
October 9th, 2011 at 11:43 am
Did some catching up today and enjoyed the humorous posts. The funniest ones, however, are the ones that seem to say that a GM is not responsible for the bad contracts they make. It is their job to make good decisions and, yes, they should be held accountable for the ones that don’t work out just like any other manager in any other business. Wren may be a wonderful GM but he is not running a hot streak of good signings/contracts/trades. In particular, he seems to forget that he is on a short financial leash and there isn’t room in the budget for big mistakes. He may deserve some slack on McLouth but KK and Lowe are examples of moves that were HUGE mistakes that have had tremendous negative impact on the team. Guess we could leave the verdict out on Fredi but it could turn out to be the worst decision of them all. Hope Wren got a big bonus this year for hitting the bottom line on profits.
80
Walker Says:
October 9th, 2011 at 3:42 pm
KK and Lowe were mistakes but was he supposed to go into the 2009 season with a horrible starting rotation?

And remember, we don’t win the 2010 wild card without Lowe.
81
Nate Says:
October 9th, 2011 at 3:56 pm
I think the 2008 season and not wanting to get into a bidding war with a division rival(Mets) played a huge role in the Lowe contract. Lowe said he wouldn’t sign for less than 4 years, so it is what it is.

Wren has made some savvy moves, and he has made some moves that make me wonder if he’s lost his mind. That’s where I stand with him. The pitching has come a long way since he took over, now he needs to keep working on the offense.
82
Anne Says:
October 9th, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Fat Elvis needs a shave and a haircut. (two bits)
83
Anonymous Says:
October 9th, 2011 at 8:09 pm
We didn’t win the 2010 WC without Lowe; somewhat agreed. And we didn’t win 2011 with Lowe (or, is it because of Lowe?) And, without a major turnaround from Lowe, it is quite likely that his $15 mil salary will make it extremely difficult to put together a competitive team in 2012. Overall, when we had some young pitchers coming up, I would have preferred taking my chances in 2010 W/O Lowe so that Braves could have put together an even better team in 2011 and 2012. Lowe has been more of a salary eater than an innings eater. I never liked the deal but he could prove me wrong by leading the Braves to a division title in 2012; wanna bet on it? On the other hand, if Lowe keeps pitching like he finnished the season, his contract will be one of the worst the Braves ever got themselves into. Time will tell.
84
David Says:
October 9th, 2011 at 11:35 pm
It’s okay to attribute the 2010 WC with Lowe and his contributions.

But, considering that the Braves won the WC by 1 game, you could say the same about every single Braves player who contributed to a win — the obvious guys like Chipper, McCann, Prado, Heyward, Hanson, and even the guys like Melky, Brooks, and Diory Hernandez. Hell, even Kenshin Kawakami won a game last year — so, really, we couldn’t have won the 2010 WC without KK. (In his one win, he went 7 ip and gave up 1 run on 2 hits and won 4-3 against the Detroit Tigers.)
85
Anonymous Says:
October 10th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
It wAs a true team effort
86
john j Says:
October 11th, 2011 at 5:45 pm
I didn’t mean to leave #83 as “Anonymous”. See you next year; hopefully, without Lowe in the discussions. Guessing Braves will only have to eat $12 mil of the contract (Rockies want Millwood back so, maybe they would take Lowe also as they are 3 starters short) as some team takes him as a number 4 0r 5. Maybe Lowe will do what some suggested Chipper do which is to rework his contract or retire. FAT CHANCE!

Show #167: Reviewing the Braves Collapse

86 Responses to “Show #167: Reviewing the Braves Collapse”

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