October 09, 2011

Show #168: Mega End of the Season Debrief Show – Part 2

Chris Dimino of 790theZone joins us to discuss all things end of the season collapse.

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119 Responses to “Show #168: Mega End of the Season Debrief Show – Part 2”

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  1. 1
    Walker Says:
    October 10th, 2011 at 10:19 am

    Great analysis of the Braves demise. But I think we are overreacting. This should be a playoff team next year. Not being a homer but we just have too much talent.Prado am Heyward do raise concerns but I guarantee both can’t be as bad as last year.

  2. 2
    Steve Says:
    October 10th, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Fair enough. But I would counter that this should have been a playoff team this year. Should have won the Wildcard by 5 – 7 games. And, wouldn’t you have guaranteed that Prado and Heyward wouldn’t have been this bad this year?

  3. 3
    Curt Says:
    October 10th, 2011 at 10:35 am

    No concerns about the state of the starting pitching?

  4. 4
    Walker Says:
    October 10th, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    Between Hudson, JJ, Hanson,Delgado, Minor, Beachy, and Medlen my concerns about the rotation are minimal. I just want these guys to go deeper in the game. I’m more worried that we have a 40 year old 3rd basemen next year. God Bless us cause Chipper is going to be out alot next year. Michael Cuddyer would be a great acquisition for us. He can play OF,3b, and 1st.

  5. 5
    Nate Says:
    October 10th, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    I’m more worried about the offense. Wren has to make some decisions with all of these starting pitchers, and he needs no find some hitters with the ones he doesn’t want. We have like 9 guys who could start a game but 0 guys who can hit with RISP.

  6. 6
    Steve Says:
    October 10th, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Yeah, the offense is something we get into with Chris Dimino (part 2). Because, you could argue we’re all set at every position. You could also argue we need to replace two OF positions and SS.

  7. 7
    Nate Says:
    October 10th, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    Great interviews, btw. Sounds like they both think we will be going into Spring with this same group. But it’s like you guys said on the show, which of our pitchers looks like a good trade piece now?

  8. 8
    Vinnie Says:
    October 10th, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    I think several thing about the 2012 Braves. One, get rid of Hanson. He’s a Boras player and we need to trade while his value is high. ZERO % chance Braves will be able to afford to resign. Two, do not resign Gonzo. Defense is great, but bat way too light. Third, let Chipper know that Freddie will be batting third ALL the time. Chipper needs to bat 6th next year (for the 76 games he plays). Forth, get a 2 hole hitter. Whoever is SS could be the guy. 5th, also considering…wait for it…trading Prado. I think he MIGHT have had his best years already. 6th, do not rely on OVB to be the same three guys next year. Eric O’F will not be the same guy, bet on it. Lastly, Hire Francona…but that’s my dream suggestion.

  9. 9
    Anonymous Says:
    October 10th, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    Are you guys trying to tell me that centering your offense around a 40 year old 3B who hasn’t had a healthy year since the Clinton administration and the catcher is a bad thing? Y’all are crazy…

  10. 10
    Curt Says:
    October 11th, 2011 at 7:42 am

    I think it’s insane to not have some concerns about the starting pitching. Hudson could easily be very spotty next year, we’ve seen what can happen with JJ and Hanson, Beachy was more than average in the 2nd half, Minor has never been that overwhelming. So you are left with Delgado, who might or might not even make the team and who will be asked to do more than he ever has in his career to this point, which might mean he is on a pitch count, and Medlen, coming off of surgery. That makes me a little nervous.

  11. 11
    Nate Says:
    October 11th, 2011 at 11:07 am

    Does it piss anyone else off that the Cardinals always have these guys like Berkman come in and win come back player of the year? If I remember correctly Reggie Sanders and Larry Walker did similar things for them. The old, slumping veterans only play like old slumping veterans when they join the Braves.

    Curt, the pitching is still a worry for me, but not as much as our offense. If anything, this postseason is proving that big name starting pitchers aren’t as important as scoring 5+ runs. That being said, Huddy feels like the only sure thing we have right now as far as pitching goes. I would like to see this rotation: Huddy, Hanson, Medlen, Beachy, Delgado, with Teheran or Minor as possible spot starters. Is Vizcaino going back to starting next year?

  12. 12
    Nate Says:
    October 11th, 2011 at 11:17 am

    I don’t think Wren/Fredi would put more than one of the Big Four in the rotation to start the year. That would just destroy the ‘pen. A combo of more than 1 rookie plus Hanson and Beachy’s high pitch counts. Yikes.

  13. 13
    David Says:
    October 11th, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    #11: FWIW, since they began awarding it in 2005, there has only been one Cardinal to win the Comeback Player of the Year award — Chris Carpenter in 2009.

  14. 14
    Nate Says:
    October 11th, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    #13, you and your facts.

  15. 15
    Steve Says:
    October 11th, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    I’m worried about all of it, but I guess less so about the starting rotation. Both JJ and Hanson will be healthy, I’d guess, to start the year. And I believe we’ll get something for one of them at the trade deadline.

    But it’s the offense that worries me the most. I bet that we have the same starting 8 as we had this year. And yes, we’ve said it a bunch of times, they should have kicked ass. On paper they look great. But I’m not done being wigged out yet.

  16. 16
    Walker Says:
    October 11th, 2011 at 11:33 pm

    The good news is, a collapse won’t happen next year. If we need to make adjustments next year we will cause we still have the pieces to do so. Prado, Heyward, Alex gonzalez are all on probation and trades will be made in the middle of the year if need be. This year Wren won’t wait for anybody to struggle the whole year or hit under .200 through the first 81 games( cough ….Uggla)

  17. 17
    Steve Says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 8:41 am

    #16 – maybe. It depends. If it’s the high priced or established guys struggling I don’t think Wren will do anything of substance (see: Chipper, Mac, Bourn, Uggla and, to a lesser extent, Freeman). It’s nice to think that no one or no thing is sacred after the collapse, but I don’t know if it’s true.

  18. 18
    Bubdylan Says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 1:20 pm

    Spensbross over at the mlb.com forum put together a list of the teams who have not played in at least one league championship series since the last time the Braves were in (and lost) the NLCS:

    Toronto Blue Jays
    Baltimore Orioles
    Kansas City Royals
    Seattle Mariners
    Washington Nationals
    Cincinnati Reds
    Pittsburgh Pirates
    San Diego Padres

    That’s it. All the other 21 teams have made it to a League Championship Series since the Dbacks beat us in 2001. That’s some pretty ugly company we’re keeping for a decade.

  19. 19
    George Says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 2:04 pm

    Very intuitive & intelligent interview. I do agree that we’d benefit if we got Evan Longoria for two of our top of the line rotation guys, but they ain’t gonna trade him for that…he’s gotta be the next Miguel Cabrerra minus the DUI’s. Less sold on Tulo, seems like he is streaky & strikes out a lot.

    My disagreement is not about Fredi’s lack of leadership skills, but certain decisions. I think if he’d gotten Hinske & Conrad among others more playing time (even when the others were hitting well) they’d been more useful as PH and others would be more rested. It seems Fredi is afraid to take (the Big Hitters) out of a game for fear of criticism or fear of losing, thus missing the big picture:

    Prime example: Jim Leland has not caved to media pressure regarding use of Justin Verlander. I use this as a “good” example b/c so far it has worked, but even if it didn’t…it would be the correct decision, b/c Jim Leland has a “big Picture” mentality and he knows: 1) whats good for the pitcher and 2) the best likelihood of making it all the way to World Series Victory.

    So, Verlander is only scheduled to pitch for ALCS game 5. If they loose the series he will be criticized that he should have pitched Verlander more often, yet Leland knows that that gives his team the best odds of competing for the whole thing.

    Win, Lose or Draw…I think he’s a genius. Of course, we also have his track record to rely on.

  20. 20
    Walker Says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    Jim leyland is not a genius. He has gotten really lucky. He may be a good leader but he is not a good manager.

  21. 21
    Walker Says:
    October 12th, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    @17
    It would be nice wouldn’t it but of course money gets in the way. It just tells u how bad Derek Lowe was for 15 million not to matter much.

  22. 22
    Curt Says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 4:14 pm

    Don’t know if anyone has read the piece on the collapse of the Red Sox, but it is pretty startling.

    http://articles.boston.com/2011-10-12/sports/30271654_1_jon-lester-josh-beckett-terry-francona

    Wish someone in Atlanta would do a similar piece. Like to find out why our team collapsed, outside of the on-field stuff.

  23. 23
    Shaun Says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    I have to admit, I had my biases regarding Chris Domino. Having not listen to much of him, I thought he was a typical, loud-mouth sports-talk guy. But he is actually very thoughtful and intelligent about baseball, which is pretty unusual in the sports-talk world.

    I like the original and bold idea of offering up two starting pitchers for a stud position player, provided it’s a rather young position player that the Braves can count on at reasonably close to market value for the next 5-10 years. They would probably have to throw in a little more than two starting pitchers but it would probably be worth it.

  24. 24
    Shaun Says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    This Red Sox stuff is a joke. Obviously it’s not ideal and certainly not how I would want a clubhouse to be but it’s blown way out of proportion.

    Really? These pitchers and perhaps others weren’t doing this stuff earlier in the season, when the Red Sox were dominating? Why not point it out then, if you though it was a problem, Boston media?

    And do people really think this kind of stuff, if not worse, never goes on in other clubhouses, even winning teams’ clubhouses? It’s all sensationalism. Again, not ideal but in the grand scheme of things, who cares?

  25. 25
    Nate Says:
    October 13th, 2011 at 5:20 pm

    I can’t believe the Red Sox organization and media just took a huge dump on the manager that won them 2 World Series after they hadn’t won since like 1918. That organization owes Tito better than that, so does the spoiled, fickle fans and media that cover and watch the BoSox. The stuff about the pain killers and his marriage don’t need to be a crutch for Red Sox players terrible on the field performance.

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