Show #169: Braves Start Their Off Season Moves
Looking back at the WS. The Awards Season. Hinske and McLouth. And the Derek Lowe trade.
179 Responses to “Show #169: Braves Start Their Off Season Moves”
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November 14th, 2011 at 5:53 pm
The Prado for Delmon Young rumors are worse than the Seth Smith rumors. Wren isn’t that stupid right?
November 14th, 2011 at 9:30 pm
LOVE #74 and #75.
Kate, I’m with you on the Delmon Young rumors. Awful. And maddening.
November 15th, 2011 at 1:40 am
Congrats to Kimbrel and Freeman.
A question for the show. Are we still rebuilding or getting ready to compete for a title run? What do you guys think?
November 15th, 2011 at 7:59 am
Nate – NEITHER
November 15th, 2011 at 8:32 am
It feels like a very stagnant mode. Trading for Bourn seem like the actions of a team trying to win in at least the next 2 years. Trading Prado for prospects sounds like a move that says “We’re not ready yet.” Do they honestly think the group that couldn’t hit last year + Delmon Young/Seth Smith – Martin Prado = offensive success?
The Prado for Ethier rumor is interesting, but can we afford to resign Eithier after this season? Does it add up if you subtract Bourn’s contract and Chipper retires? Then do they trade JJ for a CF prospect to fill Bourn’s shoes after this season?
November 15th, 2011 at 9:01 am
This from mlbtraderumors.com:
“On Sunday we heard that Martin Prado trade talks between the Rockies and Braves could pick up if the Rockies are willing to include Tim Wheeler or Charlie Blackmon in a deal. Now it appears that the Rockies aren’t willing to do that, but would sign off on a deal to send outfielder Seth Smith and a lower-level prospect.”
Then that should be the end of conversations with Colorado. Prado is worth way more than a package including Seth Smith and some guy that we won’t see for 2-3 years down the road and who might not even pan out.
November 15th, 2011 at 3:45 pm
David, sadly, the second scenario seems more in line with the Braves. Trade the guy with immediate value for a player you pray reaches some modest career stats, that hardly helps glaring deficiencies on the team, and include some prospect that we are told is the key to the whole deal. A player who may or may not pan out 3 years from now. But hey, we saved money. And, by the way, if you fans didn’t suck so bad we wouldn’t have had to make this move.
Go team.
November 15th, 2011 at 4:35 pm
Curt – I really hope that doesn’t turn out to be the case, and I really hope that they don’t trade Prado for Delmon Young.
And the more I think about it, I really hope that they don’t trade Prado, period. He should come back healthy after this offseason, and he was hitting around .280 before his injury, which sidelined him and — as I think y’all pointed out on your show — kept him from working out.
I’d rather see us trade Jurrjens this offseason and hang onto Prado. We’ve got pitching; hitting is what we need. An upgrade in LF via trade seems unnecessary — if anything, a healthy Prado should be enough of an upgrade.
And while I was typing this entry, I noticed a tweet from Buster Olney: “The Braves have no interest in trading Martin Prado for Delmon Young.” Phew!
November 15th, 2011 at 4:55 pm
Yeah, ESPN.com was saying the same on the Young for Prado deal. I know Seth Smith is a nice player, but does he really solve any problem? Any more than Prado does? Smith last year was .285 and 15 homers, playing half his games in CO. Is Prado not a better option that that? And if it’s a money dump, so say. Don’t sell us that Seth Smith is a big step in filling our OF problems. It insults me.
November 15th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
I just looked at the numbers since 2007 of the SS we swapped with the Jays. Really, really bad. The numbers actually make me feel worse, which says a lot. I fear we may be heading in the same direction on this one. In 2 years we’ll get to talk about a kid showing potential in AA that might make our everyday lineup in a year, and Martin Prado will still be earning a salary as a very good everyday Major League player. It does not make sense. No other team that is winning now does this. Why do the Braves think it works for them?
November 15th, 2011 at 8:01 pm
Sometimes you have to trade a young talent because he is a clubhouse cancer. I get that, but Prado seems like a really well liked guy in the clubhouse. Wouldn’t a team that values chemistry as much as the Braves want to keep a guy like Prado? He’s the perfect example of a great attitude and work ethic for every young player the Braves have.
November 15th, 2011 at 9:12 pm
Hopefully Pastornicky makes us forget about that horrible Yunel trade.
November 15th, 2011 at 9:23 pm
I just read my daily dose of Talking Chop. The past 2 days I’ve read their breakdown on 3rd and SS, and I’m feeling a little more optimistic. The review of Pastornicky’s arm has me concerned, but it sounds like we have some good looking young infielders in the organization. We used to have none of those, so this is a good thing. I really wish I still lived in Tampa so I could watch all these kids play in the Spring. Fortunately Gwinnett is not that far away. I wanna see the myth that is Joey Terdoslavich in person. Hopefully he lights it up and ends up there in 2011.
November 15th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
Nate – I think 2011 is going to be a little soon for Terdo.
November 15th, 2011 at 10:21 pm
#86 – I’d wager that Prado is the MOST liked guy in the clubhouse. It is all about the money. And if so, fine. But, for eff’s sake, then do something with the money that substantially improves the team. Spreading it around for a bench guy and a middle reliever will be depressing to say the least.
November 15th, 2011 at 10:25 pm
How about a blockbuster? Rockies are short 2 or 3 starters. How about Prado and JJ and a player to be named later for TuLo? SS problem solved! Oops, just pinched myself; it was all a dream.
November 16th, 2011 at 12:13 am
David, it would be a huge jump if he made Gwinnett. Best case scenario is most likely him starting in AA and, with a great year, earning a late season AAA call up. Do we know for sure if he’ll be at Spring Training this year? Speaking of which, is there a list of the minor league guys who will be playing in Spring?
You know Steve, I’m not so sure money didn’t play a part in the Yunel trade, too. If they no longer saw him as a long term piece, then they probably didn’t want to pay him anything near the 5M/year he’s getting from the Jay’s right now. If that’s the reasoning they’re using on Prado they’re crazy. I just feel a wave of disappointment coming on.
I went on a Reds site to see what kind of packages they might put together for JJ. This is obviously coming from beat writer/fan perspective, and we all know the value in that, but the names they were throwing around were mostly B type prospects coupled with a C prospect in a deal for JJ. Nowhere near the supposed Greinke asking price.
November 16th, 2011 at 8:52 am
It’s all about payroll. I would go so far as to say that the ownership/execs like McJerk don’t even care about winning championships. If it happens, it’s a bonus. But the most important thing is keeping the payroll right where it is. This demands that guys who are making $5 million, which in baseball is everyone but rookies and has-beens, must be moved. Prado and JJ now make “too much for the Braves to afford them,” so the carousel begins. Bad moves are made simply out of financial desperation, and they telegraph it from 1000 miles away. Yes, they will have some big salaries on their team – like 5 of them – and the rest will be league minimum guys and over-the-hill guys making 1 or 2 million. Expect this pattern until Liberty sells the team.
November 16th, 2011 at 9:02 am
With my thoughts added. I have to say that I was shocked that they have this few guys making over $10 million. This list does obviously not include busts like KK and McLouth
1 Derek Lowe 15,000,000 – gone (leaving behind a $10 million hole)
2 Chipper Jones 14,000,000 – face of the franchise
3 Dan Uggla 9,146,942 – your most recent big salary
4 Tim Hudson 9,000,000 – will not be resigned when his contract is up
5 Brian McCann 6,700,000 – next face of the franchise
6 Scott Linebrink 5,500,000 – gone
7 Jack Wilson 5,000,000 – gone
8 Michael Bourn 4,400,000 – no attempt will be made to resign him
9 Jair Jurrjens 3,250,000 – expendable (due arbitration)
10 Martin Prado 3,100,000 – expendable (due arbitration)
11 Alex Gonzalez 2,500,000 – gone
12 Matt Diaz 2,125,000 – stuck with Pirates contract
13 Peter Moylan 2,000,000 – gone
14 David Ross 1,625,000 – one more season, then gone
15 Eric Hinske 1,350,000 – see above
16 George Sherrill 1,200,000 – gone
17 Eric O’Flaherty 895,000 – gone once he wants too much money
18 Jason Heyward 496,500 – future face of the franchise?
19 Kris Medlen 429,750 – gone once he needs a contract
20 Jonny Venters 429,500 – Braves will only pay he or Kimbrel
21 Brooks Conrad 427,500 – should be gone, but look what he is making
22 Craig Kimbrel 419,000 – see Venters, Jonny
23 Cristhian Martinez 419,000 – near league minimum
24 Brandon Beachy 416,500 – near league minimum
25 Freddie Freeman 414,000 – at league minimum?
November 16th, 2011 at 9:36 am
#92 — I only meant that 2011 will be a little soon for Terdo b/c we’ve only got about a month and a half left of 2011, and there’s no baseball during that time.
I tend to agree that money is probably a large reason for JJ and Prado being on the block, but I’m starting to think that y’all are overstating how big of a role it’s playing. I think that Wren realizes how valuable Prado and JJ are right now, and he’s gauging what he might be able to get for them in return in a trade. I don’t think the Braves see Prado or JJ as must-trade guys this offseason. At least, I hope that’s the case — more so with Prado than JJ.
November 16th, 2011 at 3:31 pm
@93 true and depressing
November 16th, 2011 at 5:35 pm
David, their valuable is at its absolute lowest right now. Trading pennies on the dollar for those two if you trade them right now.
November 16th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
And this:
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2011/11/16/braves-prez-schuerholz-pitches-murph-for-hof/
Braves finally throw some support behind Murph getting in the hall. Maybe do this 10 years ago?
November 16th, 2011 at 8:45 pm
Murphy was an outstanding player and deserves the hof. If he could have played on a decent team, he would have got the recognition. He was the best there was in the NL in about a 5 year window; how many can say that?
November 16th, 2011 at 8:54 pm
|I think we all know that we fans are against the wall when it comes to the Braves spending money. Current owners want a return on investment and current Braves Mgmt want to keep their jobs. That is the WHOLE sorry story. I have said many times that the Braves CANNOT keep the young talent they have; so, you will see a couple of them go each year. Until we get new ownership, this is all about MONEY, NOT ABOUT WINNING. Again, that is why signing clowns like Lowe, kill the team’s chances of winning. That $10 mil of wasted money that everyone talks about is the difference in 2012. Plan on being like a good Cubs fan; love most of the guys we have while we have them and enjoy the sport.