Show #170: Braves Leave Winter Meetings Empty Handed

December 11, 2011

Show #170: Braves Leave Winter Meetings Empty Handed

JJ and Prado still on the block. The short stop position. The fortified Marlins. And the Albert Pujols deal.

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122 Responses to “Show #170: Braves Leave Winter Meetings Empty Handed”

1
Leah Says:
December 12th, 2011 at 2:57 pm
Thanks for the show guys. Honestly, I most surprised by how little I care. I seriously think September damaged my baseball soul. I’m usually counting down days until Spring training and reading every possible rumor. Wren better do something spectacular cause I’d guess I’m not the only one feeling this way in Braves Nation. I’m sure I’ll bounce back.

I am so totally against any scenario that includes trading Prado. Last year was a complete fluke. Tell me he’s not working his a$$ off getting ready for next season. Bad, bad, bad move.
2
Mark in Memphis Says:
December 12th, 2011 at 4:19 pm
I hope all you guys get over the colds you seem to have had…
3
Mark in Memphis Says:
December 12th, 2011 at 5:57 pm
@1

Problem w/ Prado is we don’t need him to play every day at 2B for us.

He IS a quality Major League second baseman that can also play at 1B, 3B and in LF. At any of the corner positions, those are places where we expect more power than he can provide on an everyday basis.

As far as LF goes, we need to get more power than he can provide. If he doesn’t play LF, he will cost too much to let him be a spot starter. When healthly, he can been a pretty effective #2 hitter behind Bourn (high BA, high OBP), however, you are usually looking for that from a SS, 2B or CF – Prado doesn’t play SS well, he won’t supplant Uggla at second and isn’t better than Bourn defensively in center.

He will also cost too much to have him sitting on the bench “in case Chipper gets hurt”…
4
Brendt Wayne Waters Says:
December 12th, 2011 at 6:11 pm
The question was asked if Pujols was going to get Lebron’d in St Louis, and was quickly dismissed as Pujols brought St Louis multiple championships. However, the St Louis sports media *is* LeBron-ing him. Not that it’s anything new that the fan base is infinitely more intelligent than the sports media, but you rarely see such an obvious example.
5
Leah Says:
December 12th, 2011 at 6:17 pm
M in M- boooooooo. You make too much sense and I don’t like it.
6
Leah Says:
December 12th, 2011 at 6:39 pm
Stupid baseball question…why do expect certain position players to be a certain type of hitter? Like, Left Fielders are power hitters?
7
Walker Says:
December 12th, 2011 at 7:29 pm
@ Leah

Most power hitters aren’t usually the most mobile and athletic players. So therefore most power hitters play positions such as 3b,1b,LF,RF where range isn’t a huge factor. Dan Uggla’s is a power hitter playing a traditional non power position but his range is horrible by evidence of his UZR. That’s why most people would have rather put him in LF and Prado at 2b. Also this is why 5 tool players and power hitters at SS,C,CF are so valuable like when Alex Rodriguez was a 25 year old free agent SS who could hit 50 homers, steal bases and play great defense. You can’t get more valuable than that.
8
Kate Says:
December 12th, 2011 at 10:42 pm
Since we get power from Uggla at a non power position we don’t need a power LF. What the Braves need is a guy who can get on base. The Braves actually hit a lot of home runs last season, but no one was ever on base when they did.
9
Nate Says:
December 13th, 2011 at 10:42 am
#8, agreed. We hit so many solo homers last year. I think they get enough power with Mac, Uggla, and Freeman in the middle of the order. If we can get Heyward in 25-30 HR range, which he should easily be doing every year, then we’ve got a pretty potent middle of the lineup. Our guys need to be playing to their potential, though.

I would like to see Chipper find a home in the 2 spot in the order. That seemed to boost the offense a little bit when it happened, but then he went back to the 3 for some reason. Chipper is not a 3 hitter anymore, imo. I don’t care what the effing book says.

The Braves had some bad mojo or something going around last year (maybe bad coaching). Even Bourn, who was having a career year, managed to be in a huge slump about a month into his Braves career.

I think the Cardinals organization wins in the whole Pujols deal. He won them 2 championships in the cheaper/younger part of his career. Now another team will have to overpay for his less productive years. They still have Matt Holliday, Carpenter, and Wainwright, and the rest of that division looks very beatable, especially with the recent Braun news. Not to mention, Josh Freese and Carpenter won this last WS for them, not Albert Pujols.

I mostly feel bad for the Astros fanbase. Not because their organization sucks because a senile Phillies fan has run them into the ground, but because they thought they were finally getting away from El Hombre with their move to the AL West. Now it appears they will both be meeting again in 2013…
10
Nate Says:
December 13th, 2011 at 10:50 am
What’s our bullpen looking like at this point?
We now there will be Kimbrel, Venters, O’Flaherty, Medlen, Vizcaino, and Martinez. How many spots are left after that and who fills them? Varvaro, Ascencio?
11
Walker Says:
December 13th, 2011 at 11:36 am
@9

Chipper stopped hitting 2nd because of weak managing. Fredi gave in like a wuss when Chipper told the media he wanted to hit lower even though the team benefited from him hitting 2nd. This team was a joke in September.
12
Nate Says:
December 13th, 2011 at 12:07 pm
Bourn
Chipper
Mac
Uggla
Freeman
Prado
Heyward
Pastornick
P

That lineup should score a lot of runs. Seth Smith is not needed.
13
Leah Says:
December 13th, 2011 at 2:29 pm
KEEP PRADO! I’m having t-shirts made.
14
Steve Says:
December 13th, 2011 at 3:25 pm
Leah – I’ll take a Large.

We’ve been talking about it a bit on the Facebook page. Anyone upset (from a baseball perspective) about the non-tendering of Moylan and Brooks?

To me, it’s the right thing to do on both accounts.

Agreed on the Chipper in the 2 hole thing. The team did get some offensive life back in it for a while there. Hopefully Prado (is still with the team, first off) and rebounds like we think and then the 2 spot will be in good shape.
15
Walker Says:
December 13th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
Moylan get hurts too much and will command too much money.

Brooks is defensively limited and not really a major league hitter.
16
David Says:
December 14th, 2011 at 12:48 pm
So, the rumor de jour: Braves are talking with Orioles about a possible trade. Adam Jones, possibly? Hey, I think that’d do the trick.

When I first looked at Jones’ career numbers, I was underwhelmed. He’s never had an OPS over .800, and it looks like he’s a low-OBP, high K, low BB guy. But it also looks like he’s heading in the right direction, what with his HR and RBI totals increasing. He’s a .275-.280 hitter, and he’s only 25 years old, with tons of potential and good years ahead of him.

Also, baseball-reference.com lists the “most similar players through current age” on each player’s profile, and the one that is most similar to Adam Jones through 25 years old? Dave Winfield. Not bad. He had better OBP numbers early in his career, but if Adam Jones has that kind of potential, then I’d be all for trading JJ and Delgado or Minor for him. Don’t know if that’s what we’d have to give up, but I’d do it.
17
Steve Says:
December 14th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
David – I’m totally on board as well. Would love to get Adam Jones. It’s pretty exciting stuff.
18
Vinnie Says:
December 14th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
I would LOVE Adam Jones. To make sure he’s not confused with Adam “pac-man” Jones…can we give him the nickname “Dig Dug”?
19
Steve Says:
December 14th, 2011 at 4:40 pm
Vinnie – good to hear from you. And yes, if we get Adam Jones, you can bestow any nickname you want.
20
Leah Says:
December 14th, 2011 at 10:41 pm
It’s time for a little commercial break. How about some non-baseball awesomeness?
http://t.co/McEeLW0a
21
Steve Says:
December 15th, 2011 at 12:12 am
Leah – thanks for the link. Fabulous version. Although, it’s kinda funny seeing that song (particularly the jam at the end) in front of such a staid crowd. I think I told you this back in April, but that jam got probably the biggest crowd reaction at the Turner Field show.
22
Leah Says:
December 15th, 2011 at 2:14 pm
I think the staid crowd was just jealous. I agree, every concert I’ve attended that section gets mad crazy wild.
23
DAP Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:27 am
hey guys, havent been in for awhile. thanks for the show, really good job.

i think alot has to go right for the marlins for them to get to the braves’ level. not saying it couldnt happen, but they need the perfect storm. im reserving judgement on that one.

as far as pastornicky goes, i think he will be ok batting 8th, but up the middle defense will be a bit of an adventure. that veteran backup will be pretty important, i think.
24
DAP Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:33 am
kate “What the Braves need is a guy who can get on base.”

amen to that. the key to solving the offensive woes from 2011 is OBP, period. in 2010, they were among league leaders in OBP, and that skill translated into a fairly effective offense, despite not having alot of punch. the braves have power, plenty of it. give my a OBP machine.
25
DAP Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:35 am
Adam Jones is one of the most overrated baseball players i have ever seen. he is barley better than jeff francouer. he doesnt play CF well, doesnt get on base, has bad plate discipline… the only way he could be considered a good ball player was if he could play CF really well. since he cant, he is basically a LFer, OPSing in the mid .700s every year. trading either prado or jurrjens for him would be a huge mistake.
26
DAP Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 11:37 am
Cody Ross is a better player than Adam Jones, and we wouldnt have to trade anyone to get him. he would be a good 4th outfielder for us.
27
DAP Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
its lonely here on page 2. :- )
28
David Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 2:15 pm
ABT team — just want to say thanks for the show, even in the midst of slowness on Wren and co.’s part. It’s always great to listen to a show, even if most of it is speculation and assessing what Atlanta might do the rest of the offseason.

How bout the FALCONS?!?! If they can keep up their recent play, especially against New Orleans on the 26th, watch out!
29
Walker Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 2:47 pm
Cody Ross is not a better player than Adam Jones.
30
DAP Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 2:52 pm
walker Cody Ross is not a better player than Adam Jones.

he absolutely is. check the hitting stats and defensive metrics.
31
DAP Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 2:56 pm
the only thing adam jones has going for him over cody ross is youth. at best they are equal players. if you wouldnt trade jurrjens for cody ross, you shouldnt do it for adam jones. both trades would be stupid.
32
Steve Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 3:40 pm
#28 – Thanks, David. It is greatly appreciated.

Hi DAP – great to hear from you. Interesting on Adam Jones. I’ll have to look at his numbers over the weekend. I remember looking at him at the trade deadline last season and thinking he looked pretty good, but I’m interested to see the numbers more closely.
33
Walker Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 6:23 pm
Adam Jones – WAR- 2.9
Cody Ross-WAR-0.9

Both players have negative UZR’s however, Ross has a negative UZR playing the corner outfield positions. If you put Adam Jones in LF his UZR would be much higher than it is playing CF just like Vernon Wells. Adam Jones has a way better arm than Ross.

Cody Ross is on the other side of 30. Adam Jones is 26 and hasn’t yet hit his peak years.

Their career OBP is about the same with Ross most likely to drop and Jones’s most likely to rise.

Jones has more power. Bill James predicts 24 HRs for Jones and 16 for Ross next year.

Bottom Lines is that Jones is younger, more likely to get better, has more power, hits for better average, and plays better defense than Ross. He’s just a better player.
34
David Says:
December 16th, 2011 at 7:03 pm
Adam Jones is definitely better than Cody Ross.
35
AtlantaMelo Says:
December 19th, 2011 at 12:56 am
Listening to most recent pod and think guy undervalue
Seth Smith an Wheeler. Smith’s splits against righties (most pitchers) is
awesome. Check out his splits AND Wheeler has awesome potential to fill in cf once Bourn is gone. Both those guys under control for one year of JJ, do the deal!
36
Curt Says:
December 19th, 2011 at 8:47 am
But are you solving any problems getting Seth Smith or Wheeler, other than the fact that you don’t have to re-sign Bourn? It’s a very cynical and lateral move. You admit that you are not going to try and sign Bourn to a deal, and you fail to add any power to your lineup with either one of those guys.
37
DAP Says:
December 19th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
walker, just wanted to respond to your post about jones vs. cody ross.

first, you pointed out adam jones’ higher WAR. this drastic difference has mostly to do with playing time. ross has about 2/3rds the ABs of jones, also while playing mostly LF, which negativley effects his WAR. even if he is playing it well. by the way, baseball reference has ross’ WAR as 1.6, and adam jones’ at 1.7. different cites calculate it differently, but maybe its not as far aprt as you think.

second you cite UZR. you CAN check cody ross’ UZR and other defensive stats in CF, and youll find that cody ross outplays adam jones in center. really the only think jones wins in is arm strength. so ross is a better centerfielder than adam jones, and keep in mind, most teams see ross as only a servicbale centerfielder. what does that tell you about jones’ defense? its bad.

you cite jones as having better power, using a bill james projection. does bill james account for home ball park? does he account for playing time? i think he does. so cody ross playing part time in san fransisco, vs adam jones playing everyday in baltimore can account for the difference in his projections.

ross has a career slg% of .456 with 21 homers and 33 2Bs per 162. jones has a .437 slg% with 19 homers and 26 doubles per 162. ross has more power.

one more stat: WPA. ross has a career 3.56, while jones has a -1.03.

the one thing jones has going for him is his youth, ill give you that. but he is certinly NOT a better player than cody ross at this point (david that goes for you, too), and there is no way id be willing to trade jurrjens or prado hoping that adam jones would become more than a borderline 4th outfielder. if you want a player like adam jones, just sign cody ross. he will cost less money and no players in a trade, and is arguably a better player.
38
Walker Says:
December 19th, 2011 at 3:53 pm
Agree to disagree. I will take Jones over Ross any day.
39
Walker Says:
December 19th, 2011 at 3:55 pm
There is a reason Cody Ross doesnt play everyday.
40
DAP Says:
December 19th, 2011 at 4:30 pm
Walker: “Agree to disagree. I will take Jones over Ross any day. There is a reason Cody Ross doesnt play everyday.”

Yeah there is a reason Ross doesn’t play everyday, and its many of the same reasons Adam Jones shouldn’t or wouldn’t play everyday on a contending club.

Baltimore thinks Jones is a star…they have alot of credibility, right? Starting him in center is working for them, right? The stats don’t lie. Jones is a medicore MLB player.
41
George Says:
December 19th, 2011 at 5:55 pm
We can’t have cake & eat it too. Y’all were raggin’ on A-Gonzales all year, so gotta expect Wren would’ve done something…however, Simmons is supposed to be good defensive player as well as Wren is likely getting adequate defensive player to back Pastornicky initially. Think we pbby won’t get Seth Smith, and initially he didn’t look very good, but looking at him…I don’t think he would be too bad…but don’t see him as equivalent to Prado. Next year is going to be tough, especially if Heyward doesn’t make huge rebound. I’m looking forward to Julio Teheran.
42
Curt Says:
December 20th, 2011 at 1:17 pm
An interesting take, given all the ‘trading proven vets for unproven potential’ we have heard around here.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7370324/the-mlb-prospect-bubble
43
David Says:
December 20th, 2011 at 2:09 pm
DAP: I’ll echo Walker’s point — agree to disagree. I couldn’t care less about UZR, WPA, or WAR. I’m sure those are fine stats, but I don’t think that they define a player.

Adam Jones is 25 years old, and he’s got a ton of potential. His numbers are on a great trajectory, with his power totals increasing last year. I’m hearing that Cody Ross is seeking a 2- or 3-year contract, and Adam Jones will hit free agency after the 2013 — so we’d have him for two seasons. If we could have Adam Jones for two seasons (and possibly longer) when he’s in his mid-twenties and in the upswing of his career versus having a Cody Ross for two seasons when he’s in his early thirties and in a downswing of his career, I’d much rather have Adam Jones — UZR, WPA, WAR, whatever other obscure stats there are be damned.

All of this is moot, of course. From a realistic standpoint, I think Wren would rather pay $9-10 million over two years of Cody Ross rather than trading whatever players Baltimore would want for Adam Jones.
44
DAP Says:
December 20th, 2011 at 5:36 pm
“From a realistic standpoint, I think Wren would rather pay $9-10 million over two years of Cody Ross rather than trading whatever players Baltimore would want for Adam Jones.”

i agree with you, because he is a very smart GM. I dont hate Adam Jones as a player. he’s fine, but hes not worth prado. and hes not worth jurrjens. orioles overvalue him, and they will never trade trade him for those two, so thats good for us, but Adam Jones is one of the most overrated players in baseball…you dont need WAR or UZR to tell you that.

personally, im looking forward to NEXT offseason, when free agent outfielders like Josh Hamilton, Carlos Quentin, Andre Ethier, Shane Victorino, Nick Swisher, BJ Upton, ect will all be free agents.
45
Curt Says:
December 20th, 2011 at 7:59 pm
Free agents not pursued by the Braves
46
Walker Says:
December 20th, 2011 at 9:07 pm
I agree Curt. Until the Braves get new ownership that cares about winning, they will never never never, ever sign/pursue big time free agents. The only way we keep winning is to continue to sign and draft well. The only problem is that developing your own players is only one aspect of building a championship team. You also have to be able to fill holes by signing a free agent here or there. And if we do sign a free agent it be a pitcher on the downside of their career(Lowe).
47
Curt Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 11:05 am
And here you go:

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/braves-made-orioles-offer-for-adam-jones.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed
48
Nate Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 11:13 am
#47, if that rumor is true, then the Orioles continue to run that organization like a clown show. I’m really glad they turned that down and overvalue Jones as much as they do. Adam Jones is a player who will get traded to the Braves and find a new career low in most offensive categories. Do not want.

The only thing he has on Prado is more power and the ability to play center. He’s not necessarily a better defensive player, imo, and Prado has a really great shot at hitting .300 again, which is something Jones will never do with his plate discipline. I just don’t see how Adam Jones would be a major upgrade over what we already have. JMO.
49
Nate Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 11:14 am
But Adam Jones is definitely better than Cody Ross. Sorry, DAP. I’m gonna have to agree to disagree with the stats on that argument.
50
DAP Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 11:48 am
walker “Until the Braves get new ownership that cares about winning, they will never never never, ever sign/pursue big time free agents.”

wait a minute, guys…3 years ago, the braves had a big need in the rotation, had some money to spend, and went out and signed one of the top pitchers of the offseason, derek lowe.

it didnt work out the way we hoped, obviously, but its not fair to say the braves dont do the free agent thing. if they have a need, and the cash, they will.
51
DAP Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 11:54 am
By the way, I don’t believe that rumor about Wren offering Prado AND Jurrjens AND a prospect for Jones. Wren is not stupid enough to offer that, nor are the Orioles stupid enough to turn it down.

Nate, Adam Jones is not better than Cody Ross by any objective measure, other than his youth. If you want to ignore the fact and decide Jones is better, do it. But objectively, at best you could say they are equal. I don’t say this to talk up Cody Ross, just trying to display a relatively equatable player. No one here would EVER trade Jair Jurrejns or Martin Prado for Cody Ross. But for some reason, a similar, possibly worse player is worth both those guys together…and a prospect? It just crazy.
52
David Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 12:59 pm
DAP — I agree with your point in #50. At this point, the Braves have $14.7 million obligated for 2013, according to Cot’s Baseball Contracts. That includes:

Dan Uggla – $13.2 million
along with a bunch of options, including McCann, Hudson, Chipper. If those options vest, here’s what we’ll have:
McCann – $12 million
Chipper – $7 million
Hudson – $9 million
…Which adds another $28 million, running the total up to around $45 million. If this is Chipper’s final year (no sure thing, I think), that takes it down to about $38 million in obligated funds. I think that this time next year, the Braves will be very involved in several of those big free agent negotiations, especially for outfielders.

I think that a lot of the “Braves never go after free agents” talk is a bit short-sighted as well as unfocused. DAP — you’re right to point out the Derek Lowe and Kawakami signings. The fact that we’re not players for any of the big free agents this year — 1B (Pujols, Fielder), a SS that will command a long-term contract as well as big bucks (Rollins, Reyes), a starting pitcher (Buerhle, CJ Wilson), or OF (Willingham, Beltran) — is more a result of the Braves either having good, homegrown players at those positions (1B, SP, and Pastornicky/Simmons, who even if he’s not good now, they can’t commit longterm to one of those guys) OR having several big contracts (Chipper, Hudson) that would prohibit signing a big free agent.

Oh yeah — and then there’s that Prado guy on our roster, the guy that plays several positions and should be back to normal health next year, the guy that, I think, Wren would be a fool to trade away while he’s still good and affordable.

And would y’all really want the Braves to be a team that makes it a habit of signing free agents? Of paying top dollar for guys who may be at their peaks now, but a couple of years into their long-term contracts, begin to decline? I know it makes for an exciting offseason, but the GM’s job is to set up the team so that they’re celebrating in October, not December and January.
53
Walker Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 4:54 pm
Frank Wren really can’t be that dumb to offer a JJ and Prado and a prospect for Jones.
54
Walker Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:01 pm
The Braves swooped in on KK because nobody knew anything about him and they overpayed for Lowe who was well past his prime. My point is we could never afford a player who is a big time commodity in their prime years.

The only big free agents in their prime the Braves have signed have been Brian Jordan, Galaragga and Maddux.
55
Curt Says:
December 21st, 2011 at 5:36 pm
If you guys think we will be in on the Josh Hamilton bidding next year, I have a bridge to sell you.

I don’t think the Braves have to get in on signing or trying to sign any or all of the big free agents that come up season to season. That has never really been the approach around here. Most of what they do is through their own system and through trades. That being said, you can’t expect that every rookie that comes through your system is going to be McCann, Kimbrel or Heyward. There are going to be some misses. I just hope they address those needs in a proactive way instead of waiting two years for the next in-house candidate to come along.

At this point, re-signing Bourn would be a big step to me.

And to your point David, have we been doing any October celebrating that I missed? I get your point, but it isn’t like this team is reeling off championships with the team they have in place. When was the last time we even won a postseason series?

Answer: 10 years ago.
56
Steve Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 12:06 am
#51 – Agreed. That whole rumor is absurd. Got to be the Orioles trying to set expectations with the baseball GMs about how big a haul they want for Jones.

Speaking of Wren, this is a good blog about him at Braves Wire: http://braveswire.com/frank-wren-the-best-in-the-business/
57
DAP Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 10:10 am
curt, josh hamilton, probably not, unless his value unexpectedly drops. but, there really are alot of free agent outfielders available next offseason. i think we will sign at least one, maybe two of them.
58
Walker Says:
December 22nd, 2011 at 9:32 pm
It’s really disheartening watching mlb network and hear Mitch Williams and Larry Bowa say sabermetrics are complete crap and shouldn’t be apart of the game. I tuned in for smart analysis and I hear this. I see why Bowa has been fired a few times and why Mitch Williams isn’t coaching. You can’t ignore facts.
59
Nate Says:
December 23rd, 2011 at 1:32 am
Does Mitch Williams still have a mullet and take steroids?

I hate trade rumors. Can we fast forward to April?

We got Bourn for nothing after hearing from Trade Rumors that we might have to give up 1 or 2 of the Four Horseman of the Pitchpocalypse to get a player of Bourn or Pence’s caliber.

I’m convinced 95% of anything you read on a trade rumors is complete speculation.

Who had Pujols going to the Angels? That’s probably the biggest free agent in baseball since A Rod, and no “insider” knew where he was going.
60
Anonymous Says:
December 23rd, 2011 at 2:33 pm
Merry Christmas Eve Eve ABT!
61
Leah Says:
December 23rd, 2011 at 2:34 pm
62
Anonymous Says:
December 23rd, 2011 at 10:23 pm
It is difficult to tell why the Braves want to move Prado so badly. Yes, he hit just .260 with a measly, Pedro Feliz-esque .302 on-base percentage in 2011, but the 28-year old Prado hit very well in 2008, ’09 and ’10 at six different positions. If the Braves move him for the sake of moving him, or just to save four million dollars, it’s a bad move that makes them worse in the short term.
63
Leah Says:
December 24th, 2011 at 10:54 am
#62. Very very much like!!!!
64
Nate Says:
December 25th, 2011 at 1:27 am
Just got 3 baseballs. One signed by Glavine, one by Smoltz, one by Maddux. Would much rather have these than a combo of Halladay, Hamels, and Lee. Go Braves and Merry Xmas to all.
65
Steve Says:
December 25th, 2011 at 10:22 am
Happy holidays, everyone. I hope you all have a great day with family and friends.

Nate, what a great gift.
66
john j Says:
December 26th, 2011 at 1:07 pm
Merry Christmas! Just wondering if anyone can see McCann playing another position at times in the future? Playing catcher in Atlanta can be a drain; did it contribute to his collapse at the end of the year?
67
Pure Says:
December 26th, 2011 at 9:06 pm
Ugh – It’s that time of the year when all the baseball write-ups are about “the year in review”. Like we need to re-live it. Fast forward to Spring Training please…
68
David Says:
December 27th, 2011 at 1:39 am
66 — I doubt they’ll try to move McCann to another position, for several reasons:

1) being a catcher, he’s naturally bound to have an extremely limited range for defensive purposes. The only other position that he could play would be 1B.
2) Freddie Freeman is, more than likely, going to be at 1B for a very long time in Atlanta.
3) Even being a backup 1B would be a huge stretch — NL catchers need to rest on their days off from catching, not playing another position.

I don’t think being a catcher contributed to his collapse at the end of the year. I think that what did it was a couple of things: the hurricane at the end of August preventing him (and the rest of the Braves) from playing at all, right at a time when they were playing well.

The other thing — and I’ll admit that this is probably too much Fredi-hating, but I think it’s true — was Fredi Gonzalez resting him on August 26, which was the game against the Mets right before the hurricane hit in NY. McCann hit 2 home runs against the Cubs the day before, and after the game he said that he finally felt like something clicked and on that day, he was seeing the ball better than he had in weeks (he was in a slump at that point). So what does Fredi do the very next day? Rests him. I guess it was because the Braves were facing a lefty (Chris Capuano), but still — if you know that you’re about to miss a couple of days of baseball because of the incoming hurricane, don’t bench McCann.
69
Nate Says:
December 27th, 2011 at 4:44 pm
The Falcons game last night was almost as bad as the Bravos Sept. I’m surprised Brees didn’t give a shout our to Van Gorder for running that terrible zone D all night long. At some point you have to stop Drew Brees, otherwise they won’t win anything for a long time. It’s right there with the Braves having to beat the Phillies. Yeah they’re good, but you gave to find a way to be better.
70
Steve Says:
December 27th, 2011 at 9:44 pm
#68 – I remember being absolutely furious when Fredi sat Mac that day. Mac, after that game, talked about having figured out a bunch of his batting issues and then to be sat. I’m stll incredulous.

#66 – it would certainly help to be able to move Mac to 1st at some point, but the point about Freddie is a good one. He should be at 1st for a long time and I’m quite confident he can’t play an outfield position.

Regardless, Mac will surely get another good, long extension.
71
Curt Says:
December 30th, 2011 at 12:11 am
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/rockies-notes-prado-jurrjens-spilborghs.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed
72
john j Says:
December 31st, 2011 at 4:07 pm
71, Smith would still be good for Braves but only at the right price. However, the article mentions Spilborghs who wasn’t 100 % healthy in 2010. He is a great influence on young players and is ready for a much better year. A great #4 outfielder who always hustles. Grab him to round out the bench.
73
Leah Says:
December 31st, 2011 at 11:49 pm
“Deepest sympathies for Jeff Porter and his family. The longtime #Braves head trainer lost his wife in a car accident today in Atlanta.” DOB tweet

Sad.
74
Walker Says:
January 1st, 2012 at 1:51 am
Man my condolences go out to the Porter family. Tragic event
75
Steve Says:
January 1st, 2012 at 2:57 pm
Horrible, horrible news about Jeff Porter’s family. Crazy nightmare.
76
Mark in Memphis Says:
January 3rd, 2012 at 2:48 pm
Would you make this trade:

Braves/Tigers

Jair Jurrjens for Delmon Young and Nick Castellanos
77
Walker Says:
January 3rd, 2012 at 5:47 pm
No
78
Steve Says:
January 4th, 2012 at 10:08 pm
Zambrano to the Marlins. What a strange off-season it’s been in the NL East.
79
Walker Says:
January 5th, 2012 at 12:15 am
Next season should be fun. Especially since we play the AL east and with the extra wild card and one game playoff games. Nice to hear J hey working out. If he could click he could be the best all around player in the game.
80
Nate Says:
January 5th, 2012 at 10:49 am
#78, Zambrano, Reyes, Hanley Ramirez, Ozzie Guillen… do they build clubhouses big enough for that much crazy? They are following the Omar Minaya plan for creating a complete disaster. Get your popcorn ready.

I just want to beat the Phillies. A World Series would be fantastic, but I really, really want to beat the Phillies.
81
Mark in Memphis Says:
January 5th, 2012 at 11:51 am
#78

It wasn’t so much Z to the Marlins as it was Z out of Chicago w/o releasing him…
82
Leah Says:
January 5th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
#80 me too!
83
Steve Says:
January 5th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
#81 – No doubt. No different than our “trade” of DLowe.
84
Walker Says:
January 5th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
When did Jose Reyes ever show signs of craziness?
85
Curt Says:
January 6th, 2012 at 8:42 am
If the Nats land Prince Fielder…..
86
Steve Says:
January 6th, 2012 at 10:24 am
#85 – Scary proposition. Adding Gio (lots of walks, but still an improvement) and Fielder and assuming with that added protection in the lineup, Werth is better. They could be much more formidable than we’re used to.

But don’t forget that we dumped 1/3rd of Lowe’s salary. Much stronger, we are.
87
Frigatedoc Says:
January 7th, 2012 at 12:32 am
Are the Braves the ONLY team in baseball not doing anything?
88
David Says:
January 7th, 2012 at 9:27 am
For the last several years, we’ve had plenty of reasons to hate Shane Victorino in Braves Country, but now it looks like we’ve got a reason to actually like him. Did yall see this tweet from him?

” my blessings again go out to Jeff Porter…plan on giving that man a hug and handshake next season! RIP Kathy u will be missed”

Gotta say, that’s pretty classy.
89
Walker Says:
January 7th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
A few things wrong with his wording in that tweet:

“That man”?

“Handshake and hug”?

“next season!” – really, an exclamation mark Shane?

“Rip Kathy u will be missed”? – nothing wrong here, i just sense slightly evil sarcasm.

I know he probably didn’t mean anything malicious but he needs to proofread his wording next time he tweets about death.
90
Jo-Bu Says:
January 9th, 2012 at 1:45 pm
#76:

I’m not sure that trade would ever be on the table. Seems like I read/heard that one of the reasons the Tigers delt him to us was because they thought he was too injury prone. I woundn’t mind Demon Young, though.
91
Steve Says:
January 9th, 2012 at 3:17 pm
#89 – Walker, wow. That dissection of the Victorino’s tweet is cold-blooded. Remember, baseball players are the least educated of athletes from the 3 major sports.
92
Nate Says:
January 9th, 2012 at 5:29 pm
I miss baseball. Even more so after that horrible, horrible, very bad Falcons game on Sunday. Just so bad. I am ready for my Braves excitement to wash over the Falcons disappointment.
93
David Says:
January 10th, 2012 at 5:11 pm
I’m going to go ahead and make my prediction for the NFC Champion as well as Super Bowl winner: the New York Giants.

Why? Because they beat Atlanta. Let’s take a look at teams in recent years that have eliminated Atlanta from postseasons in NFL and MLB:

2008-09 NFL: Arizona Cardinals (eventual NFC Champions)
2010 MLB: San Francisco Giants (won World Series)
2011 MLB: St. Louis Cardinals (won World Series)
2010-11 NFL: Green Bay Packers (Super Bowl winners)

To echo ABT’s recent tweet about the joys of being an Atlanta sports fan…when will the road to the championship stop going through Atlanta and END in Atlanta???
94
jerry in SF Says:
January 11th, 2012 at 11:37 pm
93, nice baseball post
95
jerry in SF Says:
January 11th, 2012 at 11:37 pm
what a dead site
96
jerry in SF Says:
January 11th, 2012 at 11:42 pm
I have followed braves since 1955; they will gradually dump all of their yound talent one or two players a year before they have to negotiate big contracts with them. Without new ownership, we are kidding ourselves about the future. Get real if you think any big acquisitons are coming. Just pray they keep some of what they have. See ya!
97
jerry in SF Says:
January 11th, 2012 at 11:43 pm
young talent, that is
98
Curt Says:
January 12th, 2012 at 8:40 am
Jerry, I totally agree. I have been preaching that for some time now.

As far as the dead site, this is a very active vibrant site. What do you propose we be discussing right now on here? How everyone else in the NL East is bypassing us, particularly if the Nats get Prince Fielder?

I’m all for it. Go. I think the Braves have as good a chance at finishing 4th in the division as the do 2nd.
99
BRAVEinNY (Matt) Says:
January 12th, 2012 at 9:58 am
I don’t know if anyone saw this, but Logan Morrison tweeted : “Just completed @RosettaStone level 1 Spanish #GonnaNeedit #2012MiamiMarlins” AMAZING!
100
Curt Says:
January 12th, 2012 at 12:17 pm
Because they are moving from Billings or something?
101
Nate Says:
January 12th, 2012 at 12:53 pm
We could start discussing movies…
102
Nate Says:
January 12th, 2012 at 12:56 pm
Do you think Chipper’s comments were a way of getting the front office to keep Prado? Like hey, my knee hurt so bad after the season I could barely move. Maybe don’t trade my back up. Yeah they feel great after a month and a half rest, but when will I get a that amount of rest in the span of a 6 month season? By the way I’m 40.
103
Leah Says:
January 12th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
…or music? Yes, the site is dead. That’s because I’m busy. I know, I know…where are my priorities. But some things just can’t be helped.
104
Curt Says:
January 12th, 2012 at 8:10 pm
Don’t know is anyone or everyone has seen Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, but I thought it was pretty great. David Fincher is one of my favorite directors. Saw the Descendants and thought it was slow as slow can be. Took the kids to see Tintin. I read the books as a kid and loved them. My oldest son is now obsessed with Tintin. That’s about it recently.

We are having a call tonight about a show, so if anyone has some ideas for us to discuss, other than the very obvious and tired stuff like the Braves not making any moves, let us know. I certainly want to go over that Chipper interview. I really didn’t like a bunch of his answers.
105
Leah Says:
January 13th, 2012 at 11:01 am
Curt,
G with DT was awesome…and disturbing. I’ve read the trilogy and the second two books are twice as good as the first. Highly recommend.
106
Steve Says:
January 13th, 2012 at 5:14 pm
Braves just announced a 1 year deal with Jack Wilson. Does this cement Pastornicky as starting SS? I’d say yes? Is this the last deal of the offseason for the Bravos? Another yes, I bet.
107
Steve Says:
January 13th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
#105: Have you seen the original Swedish films (there’s one for each book)? They are great, too. But I loved the Fincher better.

Wholeheartedly disagree on your assessment of the books, though. Liked 2 and 3 but thought 1 was by far the best.
108
David Says:
January 13th, 2012 at 5:17 pm
Curt,

- Jack Wilson signing, obviously
- haven’t seen any of those movies yet, but I want to. Saw “Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy,” and thought it was pretty slow and extremely hard to follow.
- in response to your tweet about whether the Wilson signing marks the end of our offseason moves — I think so. I really hope they keep Prado and wind up trading JJ. I don’t think they’ll be able to get what they want for the latter before the season starts, but if he performs well during the first few months, they’ll trade him by midseason.
109
Steve Says:
January 14th, 2012 at 1:26 am
Braves signed Prado to one year deal tonight. Doesn’t mean anything in terms of trade likelihood. Now it’s easier to trade him, because a team doesn’t have to deal with arbitration.
110
Brave in new york Says:
January 14th, 2012 at 10:25 am
Though he’s one unattractive fellow, Jack Wilson is a terrific fielding SS. I think he’s a great backup. I just hope Pastornicky can hold the job and we don’t need to rely on him as a starter. He can’t strikeout any more than Gonzo…
111
Nate Says:
January 14th, 2012 at 11:02 am
Prado got a 1 yr, $ 4.75M deal. Hopefully he’ll be ours for the whole year.
112
Leah Says:
January 14th, 2012 at 8:24 pm
#107. It’s sad when you’re wrong.
113
Walker Says:
January 15th, 2012 at 1:38 am
If Pastornicky struggles and we have to rely on Wilson as a everyday SS then it’s safe to say we will be looking for a SS at the trading deadline. Maybe the Blue Jays might trade their young SS. He looks like a good player. I forgot his name though.
114
Danny Says:
January 15th, 2012 at 11:58 pm
You guys could do a show on these movies and the 49ers game. Also, how bout them Hawks? Seriously though, can’t wait for ABT to restore its place on my Monday morning commute.

BTW I recommend Sherlock Holmes. Guy Richie makes the first watchable Holmes films!
115
Steve Says:
January 16th, 2012 at 12:54 am
Thanks, Danny. We will be doing a show tomorrow night (Monday).
116
Steve Says:
January 16th, 2012 at 10:48 am
The new alternate jersey’s been leaked. It think it’s great: http://www.sportslogos.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/braves2012alt.png
117
Nate Says:
January 16th, 2012 at 11:22 am
#115, I like ‘em. Hopefully Seth Smith will never wear one.
118
Nate Says:
January 16th, 2012 at 11:22 am
Sorry, #116.
119
David Says:
January 16th, 2012 at 11:33 am
My post on #93 took a step closer to becoming reality last night, and I think they’re going to get past San Francisco next Sunday as well. What do y’all think?

Can’t wait for a new ABT podcast!
120
Kate Says:
January 16th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Athletics aquire Seth Smith. Best news of the off season?
121
Steve Says:
January 16th, 2012 at 9:03 pm
#120 – Yes!

#119 – Definitely. I think we’re heading for another Giants/ Pats Superbowl.
122
Mauricio Roesslein Says:
March 12th, 2012 at 6:28 am
If you have to forecast, forecast often.
It’s not whatever you pay a male, but what he costs you that counts.

Show #170: Braves Leave Winter Meetings Empty Handed

122 Responses to “Show #170: Braves Leave Winter Meetings Empty Handed”

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