Show #171: The Braves Make Offseason Moves (kind of)
The Jack Wilson signing. The Prado contract. Sizing up the Nationals. And discussing the Chipper interview in the AJC.
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Admin
January 17th, 2012 at 1:22 pm
Good to hear from you, gentlemen. Enjoyed listening.
January 17th, 2012 at 1:32 pm
You want Prado as the third baseman of the future? Really?
You want a no-real-power guy in a corner infield position? Really?
You want a Major League serviceable starting second baseman playing out of position at third to be your third baseman of the future?
Really?
I assume you are pairing him with Uggla, thinking you are getting thrid base production from your second base position so you don’t NEED third base production from the man at third. I think that is selling us short and wasting the benefit of the production you are getting at second.
If you could get third base production from second and third, think how much better the team could be. It is usally MUCH more difficult to find the second baseman w/ power than it is to find the thrid baseman with power… We already have the tough one to find…
It is like if you are hitting for the cycle: Which would you rather have to get for the last piece, a double (3b w/ power) or a triple (2b w/ power)?
January 17th, 2012 at 3:19 pm
Great show, guys. I don’t really see what options we have at 3rd for the future other than Prado. The Braves sure as hell aren’t going to sign anyone of any significance. Do you need your 3B to bring a ton of power when you have guys like Mac and Uggla at 2B and C? To me the bigger concern is the offensive black hole you have in RF and at SS. Those are 2 very iffy positions. If Prado rebounds, which I think he will, then the Braves need to sign him to a multi year deal.
January 17th, 2012 at 7:53 pm
#2 dislike! Trading Prado would be the stupidest move the Braves could make. I predict he has a fantastic season. However, I’m having a terrible time getting excited to watch. Sept is very much embedded in my memory.
Nats have always beaten the heck out of us. At least now maybe they’ll give other teams in the division a hard time as well.
Go Braves! And Hammy will never be forgiven for his lack of enthusiasm for Martin.
January 18th, 2012 at 5:50 am
Just finished listening to the latest show! Great work as per usual! I am totally in agreement that Prado IS our next 3B.Also I think I agree with the sentiment that we have soo much talent on the mound that we can definitely afford to let a few bodies go. This off season would have been a perfect chance to unload a bit of it for a big bat ( read SS/LF ). I expect Heyward to bounce back and have an above average year at the plate and B Mac will be B Mac. Anything we get from Chipper will be gravy.
January 18th, 2012 at 8:58 am
MIM, I don’t think the Braves are being constructed to be a power team. Beyond the obvious lack of power on the roster, Frank Wren has come out time and time again about a shift in philosophy toward speed and athleticism, as he calls it, to take advantage of a pitcher’s friendly home field. I wouldn’t say these results have been stellar, as of yet, but that is clearly where the future of the team lies, according to the GM.
Now if that is to be the focus going forward, Prado is a perfect guy to have in the lineup. He’s a contact guy. He has some power. He has some speed. And, as Nate points out, we have power in other places. I think the Braves are looking to build a team where 5 guys can hit 20 homers, as opposed to 3 guys who can hit 45.
January 18th, 2012 at 11:30 am
Welcome Christopher in Lynchburg. Thanks for listening. I used to spend a good bit of time up in your area. I spent a year at Hampden-Sydney and frequented RMWC on numerous occasions. Great town.
January 18th, 2012 at 1:00 pm
I am concerned if there is too much of an emphasis on speed and athleticism, if it means the Braves are going to punt power to some degree. Getting on base and slugging are what creates runs.
That said, Prado is fine at third, second or even leftfield. Leftfield is not the ideal spot for Prado’s skill set but he’s fine there. When Chipper retires, I think he’ll be fine at third. I would actually prefer they move Uggla to third, at that point, and put Prado at second, assuming all these players are still on the roster when that time comes.
I still think a team desperate for a secondbaseman who can also play thirdbase, leftfield, and firstbase may give the Braves fair value for Prado by the time Chipper retires.
If Prado has a good season, it may be a good idea to try and trade him after next season. I don’t think his value would get much higher, if he has a good 2012 season, after age 28.
January 18th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
I haven’t listened to the show yet, so forgive me if I’m addressing points that are repetitive or that y’all talk about in this week’s podcast.
I agree with #5 that this offseason would have been a good time to move starting pitching. Just a thought — would you move Beachy in a deal if it meant getting a power LF bat in return? Even though you’d have to shift Prado back to a super-utility role?
After seeing Andrelton Simmons ranked as a Top 10 shortstop, I wonder if the Braves are looking at Tyler Pastornicky as a trade-chip-in-the-making. If he comes up and shows that he can play well on a major league level, I think that they’ll look into moving him to make way for Simmons, whom I bet they envision as more of a long-term SS solution than Pastornicky. But what do I know.
Glad that Moylan’s back with us, and I hope he’s able to contribute this year.
January 18th, 2012 at 1:28 pm
I don’t think Beachy is the guy to move. He’s displayed the ability to be one of the better pitchers in the league, maybe not a number one but a solid number two type.
Next offseason is the time to make big trades. Chipper may very well retire, so his contract will be off the books. Bourn may be gone. And there may be more needs to fill and more money with which to fill those needs.
I doubt they are thinking of whether they want to go with Pastornicky or Simmons, in the long term, at this point. They will make that decision when they are forced to, much like the Rangers with Andrus and Profar. Having two shortstops of that caliber isn’t an issue until Profar is ready or near ready and the Rangers are forced to make a decision. Why rush to that decision?
January 18th, 2012 at 1:38 pm
Also check to see where the Braves are come the trade deadline this year. Obviously, I want them to be in the mix, but they have a lot of parts people might want for a playoff push, should they be out of it. And you might be able to get a good bit for Bourn, who seems less and less likely to get signed here as the days go on, should they be sellers.
January 18th, 2012 at 1:40 pm
Another bad sign about the Nats. They’ve got 2 games (compared to our 1) in the first couple months of Sunday Night Baseball.
http://www.espnmediazone3.com/us/2012/01/18/star-studded-schedule-for-espn%E2%80%99s-sunday-night-baseball/
January 18th, 2012 at 1:57 pm
I may be in the minority but I think the Braves should let Bourn walk, especially for what he is likely to ask.
He’ll be 30 the first year of his new contract and he has a 88 OPS+ for his career, 97 OPS+ the last three seasons, which are likely to be among the best of his career.
Not that Bourn will be a bad player, by any means, throughout his next contract. But I just don’t know if he’ll be anything special and worth the contract he and Boras will likely command.
January 18th, 2012 at 3:53 pm
Dont worry Shaun, we wont be signing him. This is the Braves. We cant afford him.
January 18th, 2012 at 4:52 pm
Bourn is a Boras client. End of story.
January 19th, 2012 at 8:45 am
Hence trying to move him. I think if the Braves are in any trouble this year, they dump some guys quickly. Bourn would be the obvious one, but Hudson, JJ. That would be the time.
My only concern about losing Bourn is who do we have to play CF. And to the best of my knowledge the answer is no one. I don’t want Jose Constanza as my every day anything.
January 19th, 2012 at 9:46 am
Thanks for the new show – and happy new year to you, fellas.
I’m headed to Sydney, Australia for two weeks, where I plan to learn all I can about cricket until pitchers & catchers report. Go Braves!
January 19th, 2012 at 9:54 am
Curt, I think the closest everyday CF in the organization is Matt Lipka, and I think this will be his first stint in CF starting this year (he was a SS). He had a good 1st year and then struggled offensively last year, so he’s probably a ways off.
It will be interesting to see what happens in the future with Pastornicky and Simmons. Maybe if Pasto does well they try to convert Simmons to CF, but that seems unlikely since scouts are saying Simmons already has the defensive tools to play SS in Atlanta today.
In a perfect world we resign Bourn to a 3-4 year deal, imo.
Wasn’t Simmons the guy they were talking about converting into a pitcher when they drafted him? If so, he’s done some work.
January 19th, 2012 at 10:44 am
Great show as always. I think this is the Braves formula for the foreseeable future. Atlanta is touted as having a great farm system and having really quality prospects. With it getting to the point where realistically only 4 or 5 teams can spend big time money, the Braves are going more the “Marlins/Rays” route in constructing teams. Have a big time player or two, try your best to choose young guys to come up and play and rely on only one…maybe two proven starters in the rotation. Chipper is the main stumbling block in all of this. While most teams have two, may be three marquee players, the Braves are stuck with one of theirs being Chipper Jones. When he’s healthy…he’s great. HOF. But one really has to discuss this team like Chipper’s NOT going to be a big factor. Now all you got is Uggla, Bourn , maybe Prado, maybe Heyward, hopefully Freeman. That’s not to WHOO HOO for me. While not doing much this off season and bringing up youngsters to play isn’t exciting…get used to it. because until Chipper leaves, we’re stuck with ¾ of a 3rd baseman for 2012.
January 19th, 2012 at 11:17 am
Another bright side to this show – I don’t think the name “Fredi” came up once!
January 19th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
Vinny great to hear from you.
Anne, have a great time in Sydney. How exciting.
January 20th, 2012 at 10:47 am
Great show as always guys, and thanks for getting us through the doldrums of winter with some Braves talk! Some of my thoughts on your topics:
- Pastornicky: some rookies pan out and some don’t. Some excite us while they’re prospects (Heyward, Freeman, Teheran, Delgado, Vizcaino, Minor, Francoeur), and some come up and you’re kind of like “oh, hey. You’re on the team now. Um, good. I guess I’ll be rooting for you” (see guys like Gregor Blanco, James Parr, Brandon Beachy at the time, Clint Sammons). I would put Pastornicky in the latter camp.
And for each one that comes up and succeeds — McCann, Hanson, JJ, Heyward, Prado — there are another two or three that don’t. Kyle Davies. Blaine Boyer. Wilson Betemit. Andy Marte. Charlie Morton. Gorkys Hernandez. Scott Thorman. Ryan Langerhans. Brayan Pena. Horacio Ramirez. Chuck James. Joey Devine. Anthony Lerew. Brandon Jones. Jordan Schafer.
And, not to completely write off Pastornicky, but I’m not as excited about him as I am Andrelton Simmons. My opinion is that Pnick is a stopgap guy until Simmons is ready.
- Chipper’s Comments: meh. I read them but didn’t put too much stock into these. As a professional athlete who’s been playing pro ball for about 20 years now, I think he’s earned the right to speak candidly and honestly about how his body is breaking down and the game is getting fast for him. He’s always spoken honestly, and that’s one of the things I like about him.
And, by the way, whichever one of you (Curt or Ham) it was that said you’d take Derek Jeter over Chipper Jones a thousand times: for shame. Report to Turner Field to turn in your Braves Fan Club membership card and have your tomahawk ripped off of your sleeve. Plenty of room on the Yankees bandwagon.
- Uniforms: speaking of tomahawks on the sleeve…I was hoping that you guys would mention the major offseason move! The new unis are sweet.
- Batting coach’s approach: I remember Frank Wren making comments right after the collapse that, as an offense, they were going to take an approach more like the Phillies — taking pitches, making at-bats last longer, etc. I’d be surprised if, after saying that, he went out and hired a hitting coach that would do the complete opposite.
- End of the season collapse: Chipper talking about guys not dogging it…in early September, do you guys remember Fredi saying something along the lines of, “we’ve still got a comfortable lead in the Wild Card, we’re going to be alright”? I’m sure he was trying to be optimistic, but I think that kind of thinking permeated the clubhouse. He basically communicated to his team, “we’ve got it, nothing to worry about,” so when they should have been worrying, they weren’t. That’s probably oversimplifying things, but hey, that’s what I think.
January 20th, 2012 at 1:09 pm
And please forgive me for writing a post too long that nobody will read it!
I have no idea who Paul Lebowitz is, but he offers a write-up of the Phillies entering 2012 here: http://paullebowitz.com/blog/?p=3755 Personally, I could read this all day.
January 20th, 2012 at 11:14 pm
So, it was Curt who wanted Jeter, not me. As always, he’s a communist.
Anne, I actively tried to forget that Fredi was our man, so thanks for reminding me.
David, I forgot that Wren had mentioned changing the team’s approach, but my concern that came out of Chipper’s interview was that he hadn’t. Granted that is the only place I heard that. And as Curt said, having Adam Dunn be a big advocate is not the most reassuring sign.
I cannot get excited about the season yet. I know that the possibility is there to remove the bad taste of last year, but I think it could just be a continuation of last year. I seriously think we would have to go 30-10 to start the season to start to feel good about the team again.
January 20th, 2012 at 11:21 pm
David, thanks for the long post.
Couple of things. I totally agree that Chipper has more than a right to speak his mind. I appreciate his candor. I just don’t like the answers he gives sometimes.
And that was me that said I would take Jeter over Chipper. I’m never turning in any of my Braves cards and it makes me no less of a fan to appreciate Jeter as a winner and a champ.