March 25, 2012

Show #176: The End of an Era

A whole lot on Chipper, a little on JJ, a little less on Vizcaino, and no Steve.  Again.



116 Responses to “Show #176: The End of an Era”

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  1. 1
    Bubdylan Says:

    Matt, thanks for your work on the blog. Many a quiet midnight I read your stuff & always enjoyed it.

    I think the Vizcaino loss is fairly huge. I expect one of the Big Three will go down in the bullpen. But it’s a good year to get him fixed cuz we ain’t goin’ anywhere anyway. 🙂

    Don’t worry about Chipper getting on a streak at the end and coming back next year. He’ll probably have the urge, but his option won’t vest, and he’ll know Wren is going to be glad to be out of it. So even if he’s tempted, he won’t.

    I can’t think of any big Chipper memories, either. My enduring (positive) memory of him is watching him outsmart pitchers, waiting for his pitch, knowing when it’s coming, and then confirming that later in interviews about particular at-bats.

    Good show.

  2. 2
    George Says:

    I believe Chipper’s retirement will be better for ATL at end of this year (b/c of finances), but I must disagree with y’all that he was a detriment to ATL last year. His numbers, ave~.275, OBP, and even his general defense still made him among one of the better third basemen in Nat’l league, albeit his skills are rapidly eroding. He Might be a detriment this year, but I don’t feel his was last year, IMO.

  3. 3
    Shaun Says:

    FanGraphs had Chipper at 9th in Wins Above Replacement among NL thirdbasemen.

    Granted, the two most talented thirdbasemen (Wright and Zimmerman) had down years. Sure Chipper’s not the player he once was, of course, and he’s no star but he’s still noticeably more valuable than a fringe-level thirdbaseman.

  4. 4
    Bubdylan Says:

    That’s the worst thing I ever heard of.

    Unfortunately I was pretty into it after a minute or so. Can see it being a big hit at their stadium.

  5. 5
    DAP Says:

    good show guys. ill really miss chipper. i remember alot of things about him, but they are more personal chipper moments. the night he hit 3 homers in Washington, the year he won the batting title was amazing, and last year when he reached 500 doubles ( iwas there for that one). also, he has been overlooked alot in his career for various awards. he did alot of things for the team that hurt him personally. moving to LF for vinny, renegotiating his contract, ect.

    one of these days, youll have to learn how to pronounce tehran, because hopefully he will be an ace for us. its not te-HAY-ron. try Tay-RON.

  6. 6
    DAP Says:

    one other thing, as far as teams with a bunch of hall of famers and few championships, how about the late 80s, early 90s cubs? they had dawson, sandberg, maddux and mark grace, who is not in the HOF but known as the best 1st baseman in cubs history. zero championships.

    how about the early to mid 90s Mariners? Griffey, Edgar Martinez, Randy Johnson, Alex rodreguez, ect. no championships.

    how about the 90s clevenad indians? eddie murray, sandy alomar, jim thome, manny ramierez, omar vizquel….no championships.

    chipper, maddux, smoltz, and glavine played together for 8 seasons, basically. they only won 1 championship, but the above teams didnt win any! they may have not all been together 8 years, but they had plenty of chances.

    these are just three teams in recent memory, off the top of my head. my point is, there are plenty of good teams that dont win multiple championships. it has happend before.

  7. 7
    Curt Says:

    Underachievers, all.

  8. 8
    DAP Says:

    Curt “Underachievers, all.”

    I think thats fair. Just saying, its not unprecedented…and the Braves did get one.

  9. 9
    Shaun Says:

    The Braves have the second-best record in the majors since 1991. Those 3,335 games tell us more than however many October games the Braves have played.

    I know MLB likes to discount it’s regular season with expanded playoffs and all, but it doesn’t mean everyone else should when trying to judge the goodness or greatness of a team.

  10. 10
    Bubdylan Says:

    Spring Break delayed. 🙁

    Braves should have grabbed another championship, especially since their HOF gang was 3/4 starting pitching.

  11. 11
    Bubdylan Says:

    We paid more money for Derek Lowe during EACH of his years in Atlanta than Boston paid him for all 8 years of service for them. He gave Boston 18 WAR. He gave us 1.3 WAR. Heck, even the Dodgers got 12 WAR out of him for 36 million total.

    btw, he has a 3.00 ERA for the Indians through 15 innings pitched this Spring. fml.

  12. 12
    Nate Says:

    Great show. Do we really need to revisit all of the playoff failure?

    Regular season success is great, but it is not nearly as important as winning it all. Just ask the 2007 Patriots.

  13. 13
    Walker Says:

    That Yankee bias is extremely strong. If Jeter retired there would be non stop coverage. It crazy when in fact Chipper is a way better player than Jeter in the course of their careers. Imagine if Chipper played for the Yankees. Chipper is a surefire hall of famer. It’s not even a question to ask. ESPN should be ashamed of themselves. They talk NFL non stop. Baseball doesn’t exist on ESPN except for baseball tonight. Thank god for MLB Network.

  14. 14
    Walker Says:

    Chipper was way better than Dale murphy. If there was a top 100 all time players list, Chipper would definitely be between 80 and 100.

  15. 15
    Shaun Says:

    One month out of seven is not a good way to measure whether a team underachieved, especially if that one month is a series of 5- and 7-game series in which if you lose a series, you don’t advance to the next one.

    Of course I understand why there needs to be playoffs and a World Series. Baseball would certainly be very boring if, at the end of 162, the AP took a poll to decide the world champ. And I wouldn’t even go so far as to say the playoffs don’t matter at all when sizing up a team.

    But it’s still a small sample relative to the regular season.

    As a fan, of course I wanted and want more championships from the Braves. But purely from an objective perspective, if we are analyzing whether the Braves underachieved, we need to look at the big picture.

  16. 16
    Bubdylan Says:

    The truth is, a playoff system that truly crowned the best team in baseball would take the winningest NL team and put them against the winningest AL in about a 21-game series. Probably wouldn’t be good for the sport in any other way, but it would give you a champ that, way more times than not, was the best team in the sport that year.

    It has always been a joke to decide a champion of a sport where the best teams lose regularly to the worst teams (no other sport can claim this) in a handful of games.

  17. 17
    Walker Says:

    But you have to admit that the Braves did choke in the playoffs. 15 straight years should not equal 1 championship.

  18. 18
    Bubdylan Says:

    They should have won at least 2 more. Cox was pretty awful in the post.

  19. 19
    David Says:

    #14 – Baseball-Reference ranks Chipper as the 26th best all-time hitter, right after Cal Ripken and right before Carl Yastrzemski and Ken Griffey, Jr.

    #16 – “It has always been a joke to decide a champion of a sport where the best teams lose regularly to the worst teams (no other sport can claim this) in a handful of games.” — I don’t quite understand this statement…when do the best teams lose to, let alone *play*, the worst teams in the playoffs?

  20. 20
    Bubdylan Says:

    #19 – What I mean is: in a sport where the Pirates can beat the Yankees in a three game series (in the regular season) and nobody will be terribly shocked, you’ll certainly never decide who is the best versus who is only the second best team in the sport in a 5 or 7 game series (in the post season).

  21. 21
    David Says:

    #20 – Okay, I see what you mean. Thanks for clarifying.

    On that point, you’re right — the current playoff system doesn’t determine who the best team in baseball is. But then, I think you have to redefine what constitutes the “best” team. Is it the team with the most wins during the regular season? Or the team that, when elimination is on the line, they succeed? Or the team that beats another team who has several injured players at that time?

    Like Bobby Cox used to say, the playoffs are a crapshoot. That’s basically why I don’t like the one-game wild card playoff that MLB is implementing.

  22. 22
    Walker Says:

    26 greatest hitter all time isn’t that bad.

  23. 23
    Walker Says:

    Hope we get Marlon Byrd.

  24. 24
    Bubdylan Says:

    David, I don’t like it, either. It would be logical to penalize the Wild Card team in this way IF the Wild Card always went to the fourth best team in the league. But it does not. It often goes to the third or even second best team in the league. That was the whole reason the Wild Card was installed to begin with, I thought. Or if it wasn’t the reason, it should have been.

    The more we dilute the playoffs, the less chance we’ll ever see great teams regularly take the crown. This is bad news for baseball purity, but actually pretty good news for Atlanta. The Braves getting a Cardinals 2011 Style championship is their best bet now, and any decent team can do that by slipping in as the last pathetic Wild Card team.

    At the same time, it will benefit middling teams by often knocking off the AL East 2nd place team in an absurd one-game playoff versus some AL clunker, and any NL with WS aspirations should be happy about that.

    So the good news is, the Braves benefit. The bad news is, they really shouldn’t. The sport is becoming stupider for it.

  25. 25
    BRAVEinNY (Matt) Says:

    Hey guys, Thanks a lot for the shout-out. I appreciate your support! I had a blast writing for you for the past three years and when things calm down we’ll see what the future brings (Bret Favre).

    #1- Bub, It was my pleasure.

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