July 22, 2012

Show #193: Braves Stumble After Strong Start Against Nats

JJ’s future. Significance of the Nats series. What do with Uggla and what to expect from Venters. Clubhouse interviews with Sheets and  Kimbrel.



189 Responses to “Show #193: Braves Stumble After Strong Start Against Nats”

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  1. 76
    frigatedoc Says:

    I have this bad feeling that we are not getting. Demster OR Greinke

  2. 77
    Walker Says:

    Batman and Robin sucked but i weirdly enjoy watching it because of nostalgia. I was 8 when it came out and every movie was good at the time. Corny and campy as it may be.

  3. 78
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Strange win but we will take it!

  4. 79
    Steve Says:

    @47 and 50: I know I’m late to the conversation (and it’s kinda beside the point since it looks like the Dempster train has left the station), but I totally disagree about Delgado is too much for Dempster. He’s one of the top options right now. You’re not going to get him for Gilmartin and some other pitcher that’s on no one’s radar. Anything less than one of our big 3 for Dempster is fantasy land.

    My point is that’s what the market is for a guy like Dempster. Should the Braves make that trade? I’m still on the fence about it. I do think he would have made a big difference this year. And we’d still have Minor and Teheran waiting in the wings.

  5. 80
    Bubdylan Says:

    #79, why has the market changed that much since the Phillies got Cliff Lee when he was the best pitcher in baseball while protecting J. A. Happ and two other medium-top prospects? And the haul for a rental of Santana was similarly unspectacular. Maybe I just don’t understand the market. But the Atlanta offer supposedly ran laps around the Dodger offer. Tell me why it’s not an overpay. It’s 5 years of control of a top 50 prospect for 10 (now nine) starts of a 35 year old due for some regression.

  6. 81
    will Says:

    what’s Lowe up to?

  7. 82
    Curt Says:

    A mediocre 35 year old. The guy is having an amazing season, no doubt, but imagine if you were a team that traded for JJ at the all star break last year?

    And I think there is a package you can put together. Make them take Minor, if they want a big 3 starter. And definitely change the offer now. Yet Wren came out yesterday and said the Braves are still waiting with the same trade framework worked out with the Cubs. I assume meaning Delgado is going, regardless of the now weakened position with which the Cubs operate.

    I think a bigger picture is that the Braves don’t have a lot of farm talent to work with. I’m not as familiar with the names as some others on here I’m sure are, but the real prospects are either up or known. Doesn’t seem like there are ton of guys in our system that we can use as any sort of leverage.

  8. 83
    Curt Says:

    “The Dodgers have acquired Hanley Ramirez and Randy Choate from the Marlins for Nathan Eovaldi and a minor leaguer”

    So that’s what Hanley Ramirez and Randy Choate are worth? And we are giving up Delgado for Dempster? Why is that a good trade?

  9. 84
    DAP Says:

    curt, i think the hanley trade looks like a salary dump, based on the players that were exchanged. thats not the case with dempster.

  10. 85
    DAP Says:

    just got a chance to listen to the show, by the way. good one, guys. Curt, i read your interview with Uggla this weekend in the “where” magazine and i liked it. you asked some good questions.

    i hope wren doesnt get caught up with just looking at SP for a trade. the braves can use help in every category, and every little bit helps, so get us a bench bat and some bullpen help too! id still like to get headly and street from san diego.

  11. 86
    Curt Says:

    DAP, it certainly is a dump. Maybe as much of a malcontent as for salary. But the point I was making is that Hanley Ramirez is still a very talented player. Randy Choate is a solid reliever. Eovaldi has high regard as a pitching prospect. So one highly regarded pitching prospect gets you an All Star SS and a nice piece for your bullpen. You tell me we are getting that for Delgado, I’ll take it.

    Thanks, about the interview. He was a very nice guy. I’m afraid the Where hex is on him. Lesser known than the Madden curse, but just as impactful. 3 years of doing it – 3 cover boys. JJ the first year, Heyward last year, Uggla this year. Maybe I will talk to Constanza next year. Just to be safe.

  12. 87
    Steve Says:

    @80 and 82 – The easy answer is that every trade is different. First off, the Cubs aren’t doing this to save money. They’ve got all the money they need. They know he’s a hot commodity right now and can likely get a projected #3 right now for him. To DAP’s point, comparing the Hanley trade to the Dempedster/Delgado one doesn’t work because the reasoning behind the trade is different. Same with Cliff Lee. Looking back (albeit very quickly) looks like the Indians wanted quantity more than quality in that salary dump.

  13. 88
    Steve Says:

    @86 – Can you maybe interview Strasburg or Harper next year?

  14. 89
    Bubdylan Says:

    “They know he’s a hot commodity right now and can likely get a projected #3 right now for him. ”

    Zach Lee, the Dodgers pitching prospect ranked #49 by BA, was never on the table from the Dodgers. Delgado was ranked #46 by BA. So, the only reason he can get a projected #3 is because Wren’s in a panic. Dempster will not get anything CLOSE to a #3 starter for a rental of his services. Our offer was said to “run laps around” the Dodgers’. The Delgado offer raised eyebrows all across the media for this reason. We don’t need to be running laps around anybody for Ryan Dempster.

    If we’re too broke to take on Dempster’s salary, then we’re too broke to sacrifice 5 years of control of a good pitcher to improve for a few starts.

  15. 90
    Steve Says:

    Valid points, Bub. And they pass the sanity check. Maybe I’m overvaluing Dempster like Wren has.

  16. 91
    Shaun Says:

    The Marlins clearly just wanted to rid themselves of Hanley. As you guys stated, every trade is different. I don’t think the Dempster situation and the Hanley situation should be looked at in the same ways.

    To me with Dempster it was about the possibility, perhaps even the probability, that Dempster wouldn’t be worth more than a win or two over Minor, Delgado, Medlen, whomever. A win or two isn’t insignificant but I just don’t know if it was worth giving up all those years of Delgado. Not that I think Delgado is a future ace or anything like that.

    One thing the Hanley situation may tell us is that the Marlins may just be looking to get rid of players, so maybe Josh Johnson is available. Everyone talks about teams not trading within their division. I think that’s a bit overblown. Remember the Uggla trade? Remember the Millwood trade a few years back?

  17. 92
    Curt Says:

    And my 2nd point is why is Delgado still the piece? This waffling puts us in the driver’s seat, not them. Change the offer. They are going to want to get something for him at this point. They know they are losing him at the end of the year. Why still keep the same framework in place? It’s stupid. Go back and say, now you get Gilmartin instead. Take it or leave it because we are moving on. You already cost us a start. His value to us has dropped because of that. Just don’t play the victim here.

  18. 93
    Curt Says:


  19. 94
    Walker Says:

    So Dempster says he wants to be here but he really doesn’t. Leave him alone now and go after Grienke. Just don’t give up both Tehran and Delgado.

  20. 95
    Steve Says:

    Saw a tweet that Cubs Radio (?) is reporting that the Cubs will now keep Dempster and get draft picks. That could mean Delgado is no longer part of the deal.

  21. 96
    Bubdylan Says:

    #95, or it could mean they are pretty darn sure Dempster isn’t going to approve the trade. I have a hard time coming down on Dempster because he’s one of the very, very big philanthropists in all sports. I don’t know how to reconcile that with him putting us on a list and then screwing the Cubs out of the trade and wasting everybody’s time. But I guess I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially when Wren has spent more time at the bargain table on specific targets only to walk away empty handed than any GM I’ve ever heard of. It’s always looked like their fault: Kevin Towers’ fault, Furcal’s fault, David O’Brien’s fault, Dempster’s fault. Maybe it was. But it’s possible, too, that he sucks at his job.

  22. 97
    Shaun Says:

    It seems like the umpires should just let any Marlins’ hitter who gets a single or a walk proceed to secondbase to speed up the game a little.

  23. 98
    Steve Says:

    @96 – great post
    @97 – very funny

  24. 99
    Curt Says:

    It really is like I fell asleep and Mike Piazza is our catcher

  25. 100
    DAP Says:

    curt “It really is like I fell asleep and Mike Piazza is our catcher”

    that’d be nice. ill settle for brian mccann though.

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