July 22, 2012

Show #193: Braves Stumble After Strong Start Against Nats

JJ’s future. Significance of the Nats series. What do with Uggla and what to expect from Venters. Clubhouse interviews with Sheets and  Kimbrel.

 

 

189 Responses to “Show #193: Braves Stumble After Strong Start Against Nats”

  1. 1
    Walker Says:

    I disagree that JJ’s career is over. However, he needs to fix his velocity and his location. 89 MPH fastballs down the middle get hammered.

    I think its safe to say we are definitely getting either Dempster or Grienke. I also expect a trade for a reliever and bench help. Wren has alot of work to do. The Braves need to go for it this year. Chipper, Hudson and Bourn are gone next year. Lets win a damn World Series!

  2. 2
    Todd Says:

    Hey guys – I love the show. I look forward to it every Monday. You do a great job – it’s well produced, your comments are spot on, it’s really professional… The only thing is please lose the movie reviews! I can safely skip the first 5 minutes every time. No need for the chit chat, get right to the good stuff!
    Thanks!

  3. 3
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    Any chance we could get someone to teach J.J. a knuckle ball?

    Anybody got Phil Niekro’s number?

    An 89 mph fastball looks so much better against the backdrop of a knuckle ball…

  4. 4
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    What you are shooting for is .500 on the road and better than that at home…

    They were .500 on the road (against a team that has had their number).

    We need to keep it up on the road and see if they can play over .500 at home.

  5. 5
    Curt Says:

    08:14 AM ET 07.23 | Ryan Dempster remains a hot topic on the trade market. [Dempster's] first choice, the Los Angeles Dodgers, have cooled on trading for him, creating an opening for his second choice, the Atlanta Braves. The Braves remain firmly in the mix for Dempster, though no deal was close as of late Sunday afternoon. … Two other teams interested in Dempster — the Washington Nationals and St. Louis Cardinals — share the same reservations as the Dodgers about parting with better prospects for a player who is a free agent at the end of the season. Dempster’s preference is to remain in the National League. A poor outing by right-hander Jair Jurrjens against the Nationals on Sunday might only have reinforced the Braves’ desire to trade for a quality starter.

  6. 6
    Walker Says:

    Todd I love the movie reviews.Every show needs a sort of introduction.

  7. 7
    Pure Says:

    Great show. Good to have everyone back. On Dempster – looks like Steve is right. There are multiple reports saying that the Braves are close to making the deal.

  8. 8
    Walker Says:

    I’ll miss Delgado but this had to be done. Please don’t trade Tehran.

  9. 9
    Steve Says:

    Psyched for Dempster. But we’ve got to resign him. Sorry to see Delgado go.

  10. 10
    Kate Says:

    Ryan Dempsters inevitable decline starts now. I was okay trading for him if it wasn’t going to cost a top prospect but this feels like a panic move.

  11. 11
    Curt Says:

    I wish it had been Minor. And reports I saw that the Braves might just go after Grienke in the off season.

    I hope it isn’t much if anything more than Delgado. That’s a big price for half a season. And Dempster still isn’t a #1 guy. But at least they are doing something.

  12. 12
    Curt Says:

    Dempster tweeted 15 min that there is no trade. Must be ironing out some details.

  13. 13
    Bubdylan Says:

    I want Dempster, but this would be a horrible, horrible trade.

  14. 14
    Jo Bu Says:

    I’m in Todd’s camp on the movie reviews. An introduction is what the bumper music is for at the beginning of the show. I say, let’s just get down to business.

  15. 15
    Shaun Says:

    Wouldn’t it be hilarious if Dempster came out and said, “I vetoed the deal just because everyone was making such a big deal about it”?

  16. 16
    Bubdylan Says:

    I like the reviews. Just my opinion.

  17. 17
    Shaun Says:

    Talk about disappointment: I walked out of the house this morning and, while driving, realized I forgot to download the latest episode and sync it to the ol’ iPod.

  18. 18
    Leah Says:

    I predict JJ is traded in the off season and becomes the Melky Cabrera of 2013.

  19. 19
    Bubdylan Says:

    Leah, JJ will have negative trade value. We’ll have to nontender him. :(

  20. 20
    Jo Bu Says:

    …and I predict that Randall Delgado is the Melky Cabrera of 2013 if traded for Dumpster (no typo because he’s a free agent at the end of the season that we will dump).

  21. 21
    Curt Says:

    i think Delgado is going to be big time. and I think he might be the biggest of these 3. that is a hefty price for Dempster.

  22. 22
    Frigatedoc Says:

    according to mlbtraderumors, the Dempster trade is just waiting on Dempster.

  23. 23
    Bubdylan Says:

    #21, absolutely. Delgado is the most sure (which is still not very sure, admittedly) I felt about any of these young pitchers. Don’t be shocked if he outpitches Dempster the rest of THIS season.

  24. 24
    Steve Says:

    Delgado ain’t outpitching Dempster this season.

    And sorry folks, the movie reviews are here to stay. I’m also going to start adding book and television reviews.

  25. 25
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Love the movie reviews Steve because I hardly get to go to the movies and have to wait for DVD. :)

  26. 26
    Frigatedoc Says:

    BTW, at least the Braves are moving now instead of waiting and driving us all crazy. Remember this board last year? (Even though is was a GREAT trade!)

  27. 27
    ham Says:

    Curt and I are also going to start discussing the WNBA. In depth.

  28. 28
    Walker Says:

    OMG Ichiro got traded to the Yankees. Weird

  29. 29
    Frigatedoc Says:

    @27 HA HA!! My friend posted on 11 July (day after all star game) this..

    “Hanging out on worst sports day of the year. NOTHING today (WNBA does not count).”

    loved it.

    anyway…just off the wall question. Where is Glenn Hubbard? The Royals maybe? I know he got canned when Freddi came (stupid move #1) but have not seen him in baseball since.

  30. 30
    Curt Says:

    Man, did the Mariners want to dump Ichiro or what?

  31. 31
    Walker Says:

    I wasnt even paying attention to Ichiro’s stats until now. Wow he sucks.

  32. 32
    Curt Says:

    Omar Infante and Anibal Sanchez just got traded to the Tigers

  33. 33
    Leah Says:

    Love love love Ben Sheets and it has everything to do with how he says Miss’ippi. I was disappointed he didn’t say Nehked.

  34. 34
    Nate Says:

    Delgado for less than 1/2 a season of Dempster? Uh, no thanks.

  35. 35
    Curt Says:

    Can we go back in time and send Minor to the minors and the trade him for Dempster?

  36. 36
    Kate Says:

    Can we trade for Josh Johnson?

  37. 37
    Walker Says:

    Not only do we have a horrible rotation but we also have an inconsistent offense.

  38. 38
    Kate Says:

    This team is good at striking out.

  39. 39
    Jo Bu Says:

    Whatever good run these Braves build up in a win streak, they give it all back the next down slide.

  40. 40
    Leah Says:

    And the umps hate us.

  41. 41
    Steve Says:

    The offense disappearing is SOOOOO frustrating. The pitching is one thing and kind of to be expected because our pitching is just not that good (depressing in its own way), but our offense is better than this.

  42. 42
    frigatedoc Says:

    @41 agree Steve. Almost hoped when Johnson left the game that the Braves had picked him up in a trade. The Ump made the wrong call but after seeing the video it was pretty close,

  43. 43
    Bub Says:

    If the season ended today, we wouldn’t make the playoffs. :(

  44. 44
    Walker Says:

    Maybe its better that we collapse now so we wont have to do it at the end of the year.

  45. 45
    Curt Says:

    Which makes this whole Delgado for Dempster thing insane to me.

  46. 46
    Frigatedoc Says:

    This just posted on mlbtraderumors…

    TUESDAY, 9:05am: Dempster has given preliminary indications that he’d accept a trade to the Braves, ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick reports (Twitter links). However, Dempster felt blindsided when news of the proposed deal leaked before the Cubs reached him.

  47. 47
    Curt Says:

    Wonder what this team would look like with Feliz, Harrison and Wainwright as part of it?

    We should have been able to get Dempster for much less than Delgado. I know pitching is a premium right now, but so is young pitching. This reeks of panic. And this isn’t Greinke.

  48. 48
    Kate Says:

    His name has only been in the news for a couple of months so I can totally understand him feeling blindsided by a trade.

  49. 49
    Shaun Says:

    Here is some pretty detailed info on the Dempster situation based on a source that CAC says has been reliable in the past: http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=7253

    Very interesting stuff.

  50. 50
    Walker Says:

    Curt I disagree. You have to give up something to get something. Dempster and Grienke will cost one eithe Delgado or Minor. If the Braves dont want to do that then Liriano is available.

  51. 51
    Walker Says:

    So the Brewers want Delgado AND Tehran. No Sir!!!

  52. 52
    Curt Says:

    Walker, you have to give up something, but not that. They have some other pieces they could move. To give up one of your top prospects, and potentially a top of the rotation guy who is 22, for a guy who you are renting for the rest of the season, and who beyond this year has been a pretty average pitcher, is insane. The Braves were known forever for getting the best of these trades. And yet here we are again offering up a huge prospect for a vet who we will get a limited return from. Even if he gets us into the postseason, he isn’t a guy who gets us to the championship level. No way. And you have traded yet another young stud.

    Dempster isn’t Greinke. If it were Greinke I could live with it. Wren is getting panicky. Everyone knows he needs a starter, and he apparently isn’t able to work a deal. He’s just throwing all the cards on the table. Even if the Cubs take JJ as part of the deal, it isn’t worth it.

  53. 53
    Shaun Says:

    I tend to agree, Curt. I’ve seen some argue that they have to sign Dempster beyond this season to make the trade worthwhile. I think that would be a bigger mistake than trading for him in the first place.

    In scouting terms I think Dempster is a #3 right now (in spite of his ERA). His BABIP and homers per fly ball are unusually low and the percentage of runners he’s left on base is unusually high. All those things suggest he’s due for a downfall. He’s not an true ace or anything all that close. He’s a good pitcher but he’s older and he’s probably not going to be worth what he can command on the free agent market. The Braves shouldn’t even think about extending him. He’s a #3 now but he could become a #4 or worse pretty quickly at his age.

    I just don’t see how having him for two months makes all that much difference over Delgado, Minor, Medlen, etc. I think at best he’ll be worth maybe an extra win or two. Maybe that will be the difference. But it seems there have to be more efficient ways to pick up an extra win or two.

    All that said, I guess I understand the desperation and the front office trying to show the players they are trying to improve and going for it and all that. But this trade concerns me, if it goes through as reported.

  54. 54
    Curt Says:

    Watch the dregs the Cubs get for Dempster if this deal happens to fall through.

  55. 55
    ham Says:

    I agree. Greinke is who we need; not Dempster.

  56. 56
    Shaun Says:

    Rosenthal is now reporting that Dempster wants badly to go to the Dodgers and doesn’t want to go to the Braves. If that’s true, it’s hard to see the Braves wanting to still make this trade, if Dempster somehow just settles for a trade to the Braves.

  57. 57
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Just posted from mlbtraderumors (and by Shaun)

    12:43pm: Dempster doesn’t want to be traded to the Braves, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports. Instead, the right-hander hopes to be dealt to the Dodgers. While the Dodgers had interest in Dempster and were considered by some to be the favorites to acquire him, they didn’t reach an agreement with the Cubs. Chicago would lose leverage with the Dodgers if Dempster rejects a trade to the Braves, his second choice.

    So with that being said….why would the braves want HIM now? What kind of teammate would he be? Knowing now that he would not want to be there. Wow…..WAY to much drama AND he really thinks he is that good?

  58. 58
    Bubdylan Says:

    Furcal, Ken Griffey Jr, and Dempster.

    List of players who used the Braves for leverage while Wren wasted time. I think Wren has a decent baseball mind, but not sure about his “living room” instincts.

  59. 59
    Curt Says:

    And now, hopefully Wren works from a position of power. I know Dempster can veto a trade, but make them take what you want, not what they want.

    Oh, and screw Dempster.

  60. 60
    Frigatedoc Says:

    @59

    Amen to that! Give me Sheets!!! :)

  61. 61
    Shaun Says:

    Frigatedoc, I don’t blame Dempster for exercising his right to veto a trade. But I’m with you. Why would the Braves want to pull the trigger at this point if Dempster somehow were to eventually settle for a trade to the Braves? I think he’s a professional and I doubt it would affect his performance but why would the Braves want to take the chance? It would be different if he was clearly an ace-type pitcher. Then you might hold your nose and deal with him settling on your team. But why bother, considering also what you’re giving up?

  62. 62
    Mark in Memphis Says:

    But is Greinke really Greinke for the Braves?

    From a Bleacher Report article:

    Of the teams interested in Greinke, the Braves would likely be the worst fit. They should reach the playoffs this season, but Greinke may struggle at Turner Field. During the two starts that Greinke has made there during his career he has given up seven earned runs in 11 innings.

    Small sample size, but…?

  63. 63
    Shaun Says:

    Jayson Stark: “One source says status of Dempster-to-Braves deal should be resolved ‘shortly.’ In the meantime, Cubs still talking to both Braves & Dodgers”

    The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if all this was part of the Cubs’ plan to try to get as much as they could out of the Dodgers.

  64. 64
    Bubdylan Says:

    Shaun, this has “Leverage Play” written all over it.

  65. 65
    Bubdylan Says:

    Chipper’s got an actual Twitter account now. There goes the neighborhood.

  66. 66
    Curt Says:

    If we still end up with Dempster for Delgado I’m going to pull a Buhner and vomit

  67. 67
    Bubdylan Says:

    #66, me, too.

  68. 68
    Walker Says:

    You guys would seriously give up Delgado AND Tehran for Grienke? I’m not doing that. Sorry

    And this whole Dempster thing is a hot mess.

  69. 69
    Bubdylan Says:

    Teheran and Delgado for Greinke and an extension? Sure, why not.

    Young staff core of:

    2012 (this wins the division):

    Grienke
    Hudson
    Sheets/Medlen
    Hanson
    Minor

    2013:

    Greinke
    Beachy
    Hudson
    Medlen/Hanson*
    Minor

    2014:

    Greinke
    Beachy
    Minor
    Medlen/ Hanson
    Gilmartin/Vizcaino/Free Agent From Hudson’s Money/ Livan Hernandez

    2015:

    PROFIT

    (Test Medlen in the rotation next season. If he sticks, trade Hanson. If not, keep Hanson.)

  70. 70
    Bubdylan Says:

    ^ Some of the words in the above post didn’t do … things.

  71. 71
    Shaun Says:

    CAC is reporting the deal is off the table. Everyone is back to square one.

  72. 72
    Walker Says:

    Heres an interesting article for you comic/film geeks.

    http://www.hollywood.com/news/Batman_Reboot_Dark_Knight_Rises_Nolan_Batman_Beyond_Night_of_Owls/34918988

  73. 73
    Shaun Says:

    Did anyone have trouble understanding what Bane was saying half the time?

    He sounded like a muffled Darrell Hammond playing Sean Connery on those SNL Jeopardy sketches.

  74. 74
    Curt Says:

    Walker – good article. I think the blow back from the dreadful Batman & Robin spawned this type of reboot. But the Avengers certainly proves that these big action, superhero movies can be fun too. Batman just lends himself more to the dark elements. Curious to see if it works for this new Superman flick.

    Shaun, yes.

  75. 75
    Mike Says:

    Looks like our chances of landing Dempster are dwindling, but I’m actually okay with that. I’m trying to look at the bigger picture, by which I mean beyond this season. Even if we do sign him, there’s no indication that he would sign an extension with us rather than just signing with the Dodgers, the team he really wants to play for.

    I want the team to go for it this year and make a strong playoff push, but I’m starting to think that Dempster won’t actually get us over the hump. Maybe we should just stick with our prospects.

  76. 76
    frigatedoc Says:

    I have this bad feeling that we are not getting. Demster OR Greinke

  77. 77
    Walker Says:

    Batman and Robin sucked but i weirdly enjoy watching it because of nostalgia. I was 8 when it came out and every movie was good at the time. Corny and campy as it may be.

  78. 78
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Strange win but we will take it!

  79. 79
    Steve Says:

    @47 and 50: I know I’m late to the conversation (and it’s kinda beside the point since it looks like the Dempster train has left the station), but I totally disagree about Delgado is too much for Dempster. He’s one of the top options right now. You’re not going to get him for Gilmartin and some other pitcher that’s on no one’s radar. Anything less than one of our big 3 for Dempster is fantasy land.

    My point is that’s what the market is for a guy like Dempster. Should the Braves make that trade? I’m still on the fence about it. I do think he would have made a big difference this year. And we’d still have Minor and Teheran waiting in the wings.

  80. 80
    Bubdylan Says:

    #79, why has the market changed that much since the Phillies got Cliff Lee when he was the best pitcher in baseball while protecting J. A. Happ and two other medium-top prospects? And the haul for a rental of Santana was similarly unspectacular. Maybe I just don’t understand the market. But the Atlanta offer supposedly ran laps around the Dodger offer. Tell me why it’s not an overpay. It’s 5 years of control of a top 50 prospect for 10 (now nine) starts of a 35 year old due for some regression.

  81. 81
    will Says:

    what’s Lowe up to?

  82. 82
    Curt Says:

    A mediocre 35 year old. The guy is having an amazing season, no doubt, but imagine if you were a team that traded for JJ at the all star break last year?

    And I think there is a package you can put together. Make them take Minor, if they want a big 3 starter. And definitely change the offer now. Yet Wren came out yesterday and said the Braves are still waiting with the same trade framework worked out with the Cubs. I assume meaning Delgado is going, regardless of the now weakened position with which the Cubs operate.

    I think a bigger picture is that the Braves don’t have a lot of farm talent to work with. I’m not as familiar with the names as some others on here I’m sure are, but the real prospects are either up or known. Doesn’t seem like there are ton of guys in our system that we can use as any sort of leverage.

  83. 83
    Curt Says:

    “The Dodgers have acquired Hanley Ramirez and Randy Choate from the Marlins for Nathan Eovaldi and a minor leaguer”

    So that’s what Hanley Ramirez and Randy Choate are worth? And we are giving up Delgado for Dempster? Why is that a good trade?

  84. 84
    DAP Says:

    curt, i think the hanley trade looks like a salary dump, based on the players that were exchanged. thats not the case with dempster.

  85. 85
    DAP Says:

    just got a chance to listen to the show, by the way. good one, guys. Curt, i read your interview with Uggla this weekend in the “where” magazine and i liked it. you asked some good questions.

    i hope wren doesnt get caught up with just looking at SP for a trade. the braves can use help in every category, and every little bit helps, so get us a bench bat and some bullpen help too! id still like to get headly and street from san diego.

  86. 86
    Curt Says:

    DAP, it certainly is a dump. Maybe as much of a malcontent as for salary. But the point I was making is that Hanley Ramirez is still a very talented player. Randy Choate is a solid reliever. Eovaldi has high regard as a pitching prospect. So one highly regarded pitching prospect gets you an All Star SS and a nice piece for your bullpen. You tell me we are getting that for Delgado, I’ll take it.

    Thanks, about the interview. He was a very nice guy. I’m afraid the Where hex is on him. Lesser known than the Madden curse, but just as impactful. 3 years of doing it – 3 cover boys. JJ the first year, Heyward last year, Uggla this year. Maybe I will talk to Constanza next year. Just to be safe.

  87. 87
    Steve Says:

    @80 and 82 – The easy answer is that every trade is different. First off, the Cubs aren’t doing this to save money. They’ve got all the money they need. They know he’s a hot commodity right now and can likely get a projected #3 right now for him. To DAP’s point, comparing the Hanley trade to the Dempedster/Delgado one doesn’t work because the reasoning behind the trade is different. Same with Cliff Lee. Looking back (albeit very quickly) looks like the Indians wanted quantity more than quality in that salary dump.

  88. 88
    Steve Says:

    @86 – Can you maybe interview Strasburg or Harper next year?

  89. 89
    Bubdylan Says:

    “They know he’s a hot commodity right now and can likely get a projected #3 right now for him. ”

    Zach Lee, the Dodgers pitching prospect ranked #49 by BA, was never on the table from the Dodgers. Delgado was ranked #46 by BA. So, the only reason he can get a projected #3 is because Wren’s in a panic. Dempster will not get anything CLOSE to a #3 starter for a rental of his services. Our offer was said to “run laps around” the Dodgers’. The Delgado offer raised eyebrows all across the media for this reason. We don’t need to be running laps around anybody for Ryan Dempster.

    If we’re too broke to take on Dempster’s salary, then we’re too broke to sacrifice 5 years of control of a good pitcher to improve for a few starts.

  90. 90
    Steve Says:

    Valid points, Bub. And they pass the sanity check. Maybe I’m overvaluing Dempster like Wren has.

  91. 91
    Shaun Says:

    The Marlins clearly just wanted to rid themselves of Hanley. As you guys stated, every trade is different. I don’t think the Dempster situation and the Hanley situation should be looked at in the same ways.

    To me with Dempster it was about the possibility, perhaps even the probability, that Dempster wouldn’t be worth more than a win or two over Minor, Delgado, Medlen, whomever. A win or two isn’t insignificant but I just don’t know if it was worth giving up all those years of Delgado. Not that I think Delgado is a future ace or anything like that.

    One thing the Hanley situation may tell us is that the Marlins may just be looking to get rid of players, so maybe Josh Johnson is available. Everyone talks about teams not trading within their division. I think that’s a bit overblown. Remember the Uggla trade? Remember the Millwood trade a few years back?

  92. 92
    Curt Says:

    And my 2nd point is why is Delgado still the piece? This waffling puts us in the driver’s seat, not them. Change the offer. They are going to want to get something for him at this point. They know they are losing him at the end of the year. Why still keep the same framework in place? It’s stupid. Go back and say, now you get Gilmartin instead. Take it or leave it because we are moving on. You already cost us a start. His value to us has dropped because of that. Just don’t play the victim here.

  93. 93
    Curt Says:

    http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/8198266/2012-mlb-trade-deadline-atlanta-braves-moving-chicago-cubs-ryan-dempster

  94. 94
    Walker Says:

    So Dempster says he wants to be here but he really doesn’t. Leave him alone now and go after Grienke. Just don’t give up both Tehran and Delgado.

  95. 95
    Steve Says:

    Saw a tweet that Cubs Radio (?) is reporting that the Cubs will now keep Dempster and get draft picks. That could mean Delgado is no longer part of the deal.

  96. 96
    Bubdylan Says:

    #95, or it could mean they are pretty darn sure Dempster isn’t going to approve the trade. I have a hard time coming down on Dempster because he’s one of the very, very big philanthropists in all sports. I don’t know how to reconcile that with him putting us on a list and then screwing the Cubs out of the trade and wasting everybody’s time. But I guess I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially when Wren has spent more time at the bargain table on specific targets only to walk away empty handed than any GM I’ve ever heard of. It’s always looked like their fault: Kevin Towers’ fault, Furcal’s fault, David O’Brien’s fault, Dempster’s fault. Maybe it was. But it’s possible, too, that he sucks at his job.

  97. 97
    Shaun Says:

    It seems like the umpires should just let any Marlins’ hitter who gets a single or a walk proceed to secondbase to speed up the game a little.

  98. 98
    Steve Says:

    @96 – great post
    @97 – very funny

  99. 99
    Curt Says:

    It really is like I fell asleep and Mike Piazza is our catcher

  100. 100
    DAP Says:

    curt “It really is like I fell asleep and Mike Piazza is our catcher”

    that’d be nice. ill settle for brian mccann though.

  101. 101
    Bubdylan Says:

    Juan Francisco has 75% of the homers Dan Uggla has, with 32% of the plate appearances Uggla has. :(

    Nice job, Jonny V.

  102. 102
    Steve Says:

    Anyone watching the game on TV? How did Venters look? I see the results were good.

  103. 103
    Bubdylan Says:

    102, I’m curious, too. Anyone?

  104. 104
    David Says:

    Y’all were right on the money talking about how Hanson has gotten very lucky this year. Today was either the epitome of luck or pinpoint damage control.

  105. 105
    Adam Says:

    He looked good. I don’t think he fell behind in the count once and his ball was sinking nicely.

    Hanson on the other hand looked miserable. 7 walks in 5 innings and loads of guys in scoring position. The fact that the Marlins only got 1 run was a miracle.

  106. 106
    Curt Says:

    Medlen was brilliant………………….

  107. 107
    Bubdylan Says:

    I see zero possibility of landing Greinke. Teheran is busy bruising his stock value. And we’re competing for his services with teams of 105, 120, and 151 million dollar payrolls, meaning they can take his whole salary with less trouble, and more importantly meaning they are able to replace whatever farm hands they send across with free agents, etc.

    And if we DO get Greinke, and spend Teheran and Delgado to get him, and then he jets at the end of the year, it will be Tex all over again, because this time it would be fewer studs traded away, but we are in even worse shape, relative to the spending habits of the rest of the NL East, to ever recover. When I thought we were in good shape to land Dempster without spending a top arm, I had a good bit of hope for this Braves season. That’s fading fast. Was a fool’s hope, I’m afraid. Hoping that Tommy Hanson becomes dominant and Sheets holds up may be our most realistic shot. That ain’t much.

    Steve, looking at the return for Anibal Sanchez, it’s clear the market is indeed different from when Cliff Lee came across for beans. So you and Wren may not be as far off as I was saying. I hate Atlanta’s payroll. We are superlucky to be contending on it. If Philly and New York weren’t both swamped in their worst organizational nightmares of the decade, and if Miami wasn’t being run by cottonheaded ninnymugginses, we’d get trounced.

  108. 108
    Bubdylan Says:

    Going to see TDKR tonight. Time to get it over with. How’s that for anticipation?

  109. 109
    Steve Says:

    I do see from the play by play notes that no ground ball outs from Venters. I am troubled by that.

  110. 110
    Steve Says:

    Bub – I look forward to your review. In fact, write up a long, verbose review and we will read it, verbatim, to start next Sunday’s show.

  111. 111
    Curt Says:

    Please start by comparing it to every movie ever made up until this point, specifically focusing on blaxploitation movies.

  112. 112
    Bubdylan Says:

    Show #194: Braves Need Another Bat, Man.

  113. 113
    Shaun Says:

    Bubdylan @107, I think Teheran is still pretty highly regarded. Everyone realizes he’s still just 21 and in Triple-A. If he’s available, he’s probably the best starting pitching prospect that is.

    I probably wouldn’t trade much more than Teheran, without any sort of guarantee that we could sign Greinke. Maybe Teheran and some prospect other than the young pitchers.

    I would certainly think about including Christian Bethancourt, although I’d prefer they not. He hasn’t shown much offensive prowess, although he’s still very young, so I think there is maybe a 50/50 shot that he doesn’t hit enough to be an everyday catcher in the majors.

  114. 114
    Walker Says:

    I know Dempster was well within his rights. But his priority in his career obviously isn’t winning. You have your whole life to be near family. You are only a major leaguer and have a chance to be in the World Series for a short time. I dont want anybody who obviously doesn’t care whether he pitches in the postseason or not.

  115. 115
    ham Says:

    I am pretty much now going to be 100% disappointed (if not outright pissed) if we give up Delgado for Dempster. I would probably boo Dempster if he became a Brave.

    I am all of the sudden depressed about this team.

  116. 116
    Steve Says:

    @112 – So good.

  117. 117
    wonz Says:

    Time for the strUggla meter ?

  118. 118
    Bubdylan Says:

    I’ll have to see The Dark Knight Rises again before I can decide much about it. I couldn’t get settled into it at all, and I think that might change after a couple viewings at home.

    Here are all the bad points I’ll venture for now:

    It was certainly messy. The tone, the plot, character motivations, all slipped and slid around too much. This’ll probably get better for me as I catch more details.

    The soundtrack (by which I mean all things audio, not just the music) was among the worst I’ve ever heard in a blockbuster. They have to get that fixed. I can’t understand how such a big film can have that problem. I have some limited sound engineering experience and I could have fixed a few things in the balance, so it’s fairly baffling how they could let the mix go out like that.

    The movie needed to breathe more. The complaint is that it’s overlong, but they should have bit the bullet and let it be 20 minutes longer to allow some key things to develop better, and some quiet moments to emerge between the noise. Or just cut that superflous bit with Blake and the kids on the bus and found something better for him to do. Talk about “tacked on.”

    Too much exposition.

    The good things I’ll venture:

    A lot of small aesthetic choices were … choice. The way Bruce’s big, barren room looked, the colors, the hardwood floor. The overhead shot of the tumbler driving through the snow. Selina Kyle’s apartment. Bane’s clothes.

    The fist-fighting between Batman and Bane, loathed by some reviewers, I loved every second of. Most superhero fighting is highly stylized; I welcomed two strong men just clumsily beating the crap out of each other.

    Anne Hathaway was pretty damn amazing.

    I didn’t find it nearly as bleak or nihilistic or political as I feared. I never thought I was being manipulated towards any special view. Another viewing might change my mind, more of those themes might come out. I thought it was actually downright warmhearted for a Nolan film.

    Okay, that’s it.

    Walker, did you see it? If you commented on it, I missed it. What did you think?

  119. 119
    David Says:

    Great points, Bub. I saw it last night as well, and I was underwhelmed by it for many of the same reasons you cited. There was no way it could top #2, but it didn’t even come close to being as good.

    A trivia question for the morning: The Braves have 3 players with 10+ steals this year — Bourn, Heyward, Prado. When was the last time that happened, and who were the players?

  120. 120
    Kate Says:

    2000 or 2001 with Furcal, Andruw, and Brian Jordan?

  121. 121
    Walker Says:

    Bub I been meaning to see this movie since Friday but I’ve been so busy. I should see it by the end of the week. I’ve jumped through hoops trying to avoid any kind of spoilers.

  122. 122
    Curt Says:

    http://badassdigest.com/2012/07/26/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs.-the-dark-knight-rises/

    Walker, don’t read this review until after you see the movie.

  123. 123
    Bubdylan Says:

    That review is kind of hard to disagree with, Curt. Nolan being disinterested would certainly help me with all the moments when I thought “this mistake could be so easily fixed, how could he miss it?”

    That said, I’m still leaning more towards loving it than hating it. The way some say that Chipper Jones at 80% health is better than most ballplayers at 100%, Nolan (with this cast and this much momentum in hand) at 50% interested is better than most of the blockbusters we are presented with.

    One more positive, and I didn’t realize it till I woke up this morning. I care more about Bruce Wayne/Batman after the third film. His aging, his “break up” with a certain longtime friend, the temporary reprieve from loneliness with _________, the homely comment he made about Selina’s apartment, all those vulnerabilities put together kind of got to me. And there were shots of his face in the Batman suit that showed more weariness, more emotion, than in the previous films. Even if Nolan phoned in some of the “nice” moments, they were still nice, mainly because the actors invested in them.

    Blah blah blah, that’s all from me on Batman. I lean toward most likely probably possibly loving it after I see it some more. (plays Supertramp’s “Give A Little Bit” for Curt. Let the movie into your heart, Jaded One.)

  124. 124
    Bubdylan Says:

    Holy Rotation-Fatigue, Batman:

    “Namely, what happens if there’s a tie for the second spot?

    Well, here’s the situation. It’s just like we’re used to, but with an additional kick thanks to the second wild card. If two teams are tied for the second wild card slot, we do the game 163 thing, like we’ve done in years before. Whoever has the best head to head record hosts the game, and that game takes place the day after the season ends. The very next day, the winner of *that* game has to travel to the winner of the first wild card for the one game wild card playoff. Then the winner of THAT game gets to host the top seed the very next day in the beginning of the division series. So if a team ties for the second wild card slot, they could end up playing four games in four cities in four days. Lunacy.”

    http://www.bloguin.com/theoutsidecorner/2012-articles/july/the-second-wild-card-may-cause-more-problems.html

    (Relevant because the Braves are virtually in this spot right now. .5 games back of the second spot, with one less game played than the Dodgers.

  125. 125
    Bubdylan Says:

    #124, nevermind. Was looking at previous standings. 8)

    If it ended today, we’re in.

  126. 126
    Curt Says:

    Bub, I’m not nearly as cynical as that guy is to think Nolan mailed it in and didn’t want to make that movie. It was too big and too good for that. I certainly think it merits several viewings and will be much more appreciated with age. I just thought he offered an interesting take.

    Spiderman, on the other hand, blew.

  127. 127
    David Says:

    Follow up on #119 — 2008, with Kelly Johnson (11), Gregor Blanco (13), and Josh Anderson (10).

  128. 128
    David Says:

    …Before that, it was 2004, with Giles (17), Furcal (29), and JD Drew (12).

  129. 129
    Bubdylan Says:

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/19662670/greinke-derby-should-be-a-doozy-rangers-braves-chisox-angels-dodgers-etc

    David, cool trivia. I was way off. I figured McCann, Glaus, and Hinske.

  130. 130
    Mike Says:

    @129 – I could have sworn Greg Norton and Corky Miller led a few years back.

  131. 131
    Steve Says:

    Ugh – 129 was me.

  132. 132
    Steve Says:

    And by 129, I meant 130. This is getting better and better.

  133. 133
    Frigatedoc Says:

    So if the Braves don’t get a new starter, do you think that in their minds they would if they started Medlen and caught lightning in a bottle with Sheets?

    Heard on Mike and Mike that Grienke is most likely going to the Rangers because they have the most to give up for him.

  134. 134
    ham Says:

    so then, its Hudson, Hanson, Sheets, Medlen, Minor (?) or does Delgado go 5th?

  135. 135
    Frigatedoc Says:

    @134

    You know Hammy, on paper that isn’t so bad….. but we ALL KNOW how good the Braves look on paper and how well they perform!

  136. 136
    Curt Says:

    Yeah, maybe they move Medlen to starting and add some BP depth instead

  137. 137
    Frigatedoc Says:

    So I guess the Braves signed Miguel Batista instead of Grienke or anyone else for that matter….. As my son says EPIC FAIL!

  138. 138
    Walker Says:

    Angels just acquired Grienke. Rosenthal reports.

  139. 139
    Bubdylan Says:

    Out in the cold, boys. Oh well, bring on the Medlen Era.

  140. 140
    Bubdylan Says:

    This is a very satisfying game so far. 5 off Hamels, a homer from LH McCann off LH Hamels. Ben Sheets looking good. First game for Hamels since his big contract. This is fun.

  141. 141
    Walker Says:

    I love how the Phillies had a little hope coming into the series and we are squashing them. LoL

  142. 142
    David Says:

    140 and 141 — no kidding. It seems like Hamels was the only good thing happening in Philly this year, and he has one of those games that makes them think twice about that huge contract they just gave him.

  143. 143
    Bubdylan Says:

    I have a question for the universe: Why are Harper and Strasberg(sp?) both studs while Heyward and Hanson aren’t?

  144. 144
    Bubdylan Says:

    I have to say, if it’s a Braves-Pirates one-game playoff, I would be very excited to see that. We’re the team that cursed them to 20 years of obscurity. Hard to get a better narrative going than that one. If that game ended in a walk-off, for either team, it’d be legendary.

  145. 145
    Bubdylan Says:

    Not to mention, we end the year in a series at Pirates. So it would be our 4th game in a row against them. Interesting.

  146. 146
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Looks like Uggla went hitless again tonight. There are pitchers in the American Leage who hit for better avg.

  147. 147
    Bubdylan Says:

    If my math is right, here is some good news:

    Percentages of remaining schedules played against teams over .500 by the Braves and their WC competition.

    Braves: 25.4%
    Pirates: 34.9%
    Cardinals: 43.5%
    Dodgers: 59%

  148. 148
    Steve Says:

    @144/145- so true. And all the flashback packages on the broadcast would be great.

    I realize this is a change of heart, but I’m very concerned that the Dempster/Delgado deal will rise from the ashes on Monday or Tuesday. If one of the big three go in a trade, the return has got to be under contract thru at least next year. Ivecreally come around to that.

  149. 149
    Ham Says:

    You guys! Have you been under a rock?! We got Bautista! I can’t believe the Blue Jays were willing to give him up, but who cares?! BOMB City time! Wren strikes again!

    I mean now we can say that we didn’t only pick up a 41 year old, triple-retread that a team “worse” than us threw on the garbage heap, while the rest of the league made real trades. We can say that, right? Right? We got Bautista?

    Wait . . . Miguel … Wait . . . No . . . Really?

    Sigh.

  150. 150
    Curt Says:

    It must be nice to root for a team where owners take that role seriously.

  151. 151
    Curt Says:

    And amazing that Greinke went to the Angels for ‘only’ their #1 prospect – when rumours were that they wanted Teheran and Delgado from us.

    Anyone fired up for the Olympics?

  152. 152
    Curt Says:

    •The Braves are still looking to upgrade their rotation, reports MLB.com’s Mark Bowman. The Braves have shown interest in Edinson Volquez and James Shields, though Bowman notes that a less-pricey pitching option like Rays right-hander Wade Davis could fit Atlanta’s needs. Multiple teams have asked about Davis, though he’s pitched out of the bullpen all season and wouldn’t be able to immediately help a team looking for a starter.

    hope springs eternal. I would love if we leave Medlen in the bullpen and bring a guy over from the Rays who we have to send to AAA to stretch out.

  153. 153
    David Says:

    151 – I heard that LAA sent their #s 2, 4, and 9 prospects.

    I think most people here would agree with this, but I hope we don’t trade Delgado for Dempster and that we do put Medlen into the rotation.

  154. 154
    Curt Says:

    David, thanks for that update. Makes sense. I like the term now – “texeira-like haul” which is apparently what the marlins are seeking for josh johnson

  155. 155
    Bubdylan Says:

    Big prospect offerings aren’t really that foolish for teams like the Angels. Prospects work out too rarely for a big payroll team to sweat it. It’s just that if you’re Atlanta, it’s high production from prospects or bust.

  156. 156
    frigatedoc Says:

    Good news….Medlen.starts Tuesday. Bsd news JJ in the bullpin.

  157. 157
    Danny Says:

    JJ will play the same role KK used to fill. Pitching wasted innings to save the better arms.

  158. 158
    Bubdylan Says:

    #157, have you met our manager?

  159. 159
    Bubdylan Says:

    Three pitches, Dan? Really? First three pitches of the day from Joe Freaking Blanton, and it’s hack hack hack? I’m seriously close to despising the guy I begged for us to get for three years.

  160. 160
    Walker Says:

    Dan Uggla sucks. At least make contact. Strikeouts have no value.

  161. 161
    Bubdylan Says:

    Can we call him Danny K?

  162. 162
    Walker Says:

    Teams like the Yankees don’t care about trading their prospects because they know the can just go out on the free agent market and sign whoever.

  163. 163
    Walker Says:

    Chip Carey is stupid. According to him Jimmy Rollins may be the greatest Phillies player ever. LOL

  164. 164
    Bubdylan Says:

    Minor’s only thrown 34 pitches through 3 innings. He’s improving.

  165. 165
    Bubdylan Says:

    I know the Phillies suck right now, but would you care to guess when the last time they were held to a single run was, before yesterday? July 6th. Against the Braves. :)

  166. 166
    Bubdylan Says:

    *one run or less, of course. In that game on the 6th, Huddy shut them out.

  167. 167
    Bubdylan Says:

    In fact, the Phillies have scored fewer than 2 runs four times in the last 30 days:

    Hudson
    Sheets
    Minor

    Niese.

    :) Nice.

    Sit DOWN, Chase Utley. (Strike Five, you’re OUT – thanks, ump)

  168. 168
    Curt Says:

    @161 – nice work.

  169. 169
    Curt Says:

    Sadly, quite stoked for the Medlen start.

  170. 170
    Danny Says:

    @158
    I guess JJ could disappear like KK too.
    So sad. Two years ago I swore JJ would be our ace by now!

    The Braves are looking pretty good right now for under 100 mil.
    Under 90, whatever.

    The big three prospects still feel more important than another big name arm. Hudson is getting pretty fragile.

  171. 171
    Bubdylan Says:

    @169, absolutely. That’s not sad. The little bulldog deserves it. He needs a 3rd pitch, but maybe in a shortened season, he’ll get away with it. Maybe this’ll be Prado 2.0 and not Diaz 2.0 (you know, players who got passed over inexplicably when seeming to deserve full time play…)

  172. 172
    Frigatedoc Says:

    Uggla 0-3 again…. Wow

  173. 173
    Nate Says:

    It’s hard for me to fathom James Shields being available. When I lived down it always seemed like he was their #2, and his production rivaled David Price. Maybe he could use a change of scenery..

    Or is he just bad now? Kind of like Garza is just bad now? Kind of like JJ is just bad now? How do these guys fall off so much?

  174. 174
    Walker Says:

    I’m loving Heyward right now…… And Uggla comes through. Wow

  175. 175
    Bubdylan Says:

    Man, how fun is this?

    Keep it up, Bravos.

  176. 176
    Curt Says:

    Halladay has certainly settled in. We need him out of the game

  177. 177
    David Says:

    Great win, great sweep. LOVE that we’re dominating the Phillies this year.

    Braves haven’t pitchers haven’t allowed a multi-run inning since the 2nd inning on Tuesday, when Hudson allowed 2 runs.

    Braves are 16-8 in July.

    This week’s schedule has huge potential written all over it — 4 against the Marlins and 3 against Houston, who have won 2 games in July. TWO! This could be a 6-1 week, but I’ll go 5-2 (3-1 vs Florida, 2-1 vs Houston).

  178. 178
    Curt Says:

    Man, did I get some Philly fans fired up on Twitter today. Their lazy response to everything is that Atlanta fans suck. Literally every response. Because the Vet was packed throughout the 90s.

  179. 179
    Bubdylan Says:

    post game quotes from DOB. (Note, I copied these from a message board, not the AJC, so I can’t be 100% they’re right).

    On Fredi saying it’s time for scoreboard watching

    “He can watch it all he wants, he sits there and looks at it every day [from the dugout]. I’ve got my back turned to it. I don’t really pay that much attention. As we sit right now, we’re in the playoffs. So just keep going out and winning ballgames. If we win ballgames, we’ve got our destiny in our hands. That’s all you can worry about. I think if we go out and we take it a step further than we did last year — I think we ended up with 89, 90 wins – if we go out and get ourselves 90-plus, 95 wins, I don’t think we’ll have to worry about not making it to the playoffs.”

    On Fredi’s misinterpretation of your tweet, thinking you were going to the real doc

    “How does that happen? I mean, baseball people should know who’s pitching today. I mean, I would think the training staff would probably tell him if I had a real doctor’s appointment, but… I’d expect some of the civilians out there not to know what I was talking about, but not Fredi.”

    **********************

    I don’t know the tone. Was he joking around?

  180. 180
    Bubdylan Says:

    ^ Above quotes verified. Should have looked at AJC first, duh.

  181. 181
    Walker Says:

    Lol. Did Chipper really say that? Wow.

  182. 182
    Walker Says:

    So Chipper passes Rose. How crazy is it that the HOF may never induct the all time hits and HR leaders?

  183. 183
    Anne Says:

    Excited to be going to Tuesday’s game with Meds taking the mound. Great weekend. Go Braves!!

  184. 184
    Bubdylan Says:

    The Braves have played 62 games so far that were part of either a winning streak or a losing streak of 3 games or more.

  185. 185
    Bubdylan Says:

    That’s 61% of the season spent in a winning or losing streak. Nutty.

  186. 186
    Bubdylan Says:

    I’m going to the game tomorrow. Any y’all be there?

  187. 187
    Leah Says:

    I’m going August 15… Does that help?

  188. 188
    Bubdylan Says:

    No. :(

  189. 189
    Bubdylan Says:

    Where is new show?

Leave a Reply