“Steve, Freeman’s in the wings but why not get Gonzalez for a year. Padres don’t need pitchers?”
I just don’t think its good business. Gonzalez has one more year left on his contract. He’d be a one year rental for a steep, steep price in prospects and MLB ready players. Two years, maybe. But not for one year.
Stevie, it’s baseball not business. Maybe I should travel around with Frank and use my southern charm to get things done. Whose the Padres GM? We’ll trade Buddy Carlisle for AG before he remembers Buddy’s in Japan.
I obviously think Hammy is brilliant annd his validating my opinion makes him my current favorite host. LaRoche was helpful at the end of last season and he is forgiven for ruining Mother’s Day 2004 but his first half performances make me nervous. Hammy, while brilliant, confused me a bit. The guys you mentioned had pretty low BA. So that’s ok as long as they have 20HR or so? Still learning. Great show!
No, wait. Nevermind. I just realized that even if Soriano accepts, he’d definitely okay a trade to a place where he could close.
Why would any team pay the 7 mill arby salary AND a trade piece when they could have gotten him for 7 mill flat? Because it would be a small trade piece/ salary dump which is easier to give up than draft picks. And because willingness to do certain things changes heavily in the course of an offseason. (See “Derek Lowe, Winter 2008)
Furthermore, I’m talking out of my ass. Roll Tide.
Bub – I’m growing a little more nervous as the day wears on as well. But I still believe that he gets offered 2 years for 10MM or more, he’s gone. And I think that is still the more likely scenario. He’s The Scowl, for God’s sake!
Kelly’s got a sweet swing, Steve. It isn’t so hard to believe he’s a decent hitting coach away from turning it around. If I was a mid-low market team looking for a 2B at rather small trade cost, he’d be my guy for certain.
I propose that during the offseason, we refer to the Boston Redsox and New York Yankees as a single team, since they mean the same thing in so many scenarios, and can be used interchangably in countless trade ideas.
And we shall call them: The B’york Yanksox.
Let’s trade Lowe and Soriano to the B’york Yanksox for … no, wait, it doesn’t work. I hate the internet.
There probably isn’t a scenario that doesn’t involve them wanting at least Freeman and I would say 4 or 5 other major prospects. You might be looking at the second coming of the Tex trade and I would hate to have to look back on one of those deals again. He would be a huge help, but he alone is not winning us a WS, and that is the only scenario where you should make that deal.
I don’t know if SD might be apt to lessen their wish list, after the Peavy thing exploded on them, and given that the owner might lose half the team in a divorce, but with that, I think they want 5 of our top-10 prospects. With the frugality of the Braves, and with the strength of their farm system right now, I don’t see how they do it. If they could package something like Schafer, Medlen, and a couple of pitching prospects, maybe you do it.
Oh, and I didn’t even know Gonzalez was in his last year of contract when I said “Heyward+,” I thought he had two left, so please, never even base the slightest bit of your baseball education on anything I say. I just… say stuff. You know this, don’t you? If I’m ever right it’s an accident. Also, I change my opinion about every nine seconds.
For example, Uggla as the 2B of a team hoping to win by way of run prevention? What was I thinking?
We’d get to watch Freeman, Teheran, Kimbrel, & company blossom for the Padres in 2012 while that same year Adrian tears it up for the Yanksox, and we scrape the barrel for a 1B we can afford.
Though, I disagree that Gonzalez wouldn’t put us over the top. I mean, no player guarantees a WS, but in Atlanta’s market, the team that we’d have after acquiring A. Gonzo at the same time that we have this pitching & surrounding batters would be as close as it ever gets.
How many teams have this many solid-to-high-level performers at low cost, for a two-year window:
Any predictions on Soriano? An hour and a half to go. I’m gonna run out and get some beer. I love the internet.
I think he’ll decline, and I think Wren is brilliant for putting that big ol’ smile on his “I’m sure he’ll want to be traded cuz there’s no way in hell I’m letting him pitch the 8th or 9th,” which is smiley-frank for “Listen, Scowl-wowl, you need to beat feet. You’ve been replaced for cheaper and less ouchy.”
I thought I would understand this off season better due to hanging with all you smarty pants. However, I’m as confused as ever. I hate to be the village idiot but can someone explain when a player becomes a free agent? When is a player offered arbitration? When does a player choose to be traded? Sorry for all the simplicity. If it’s too juvenile for this crowd tell me to go buy “baseball 101 for dummies”.
Well, Leah, I waited to let them answer cuz they’ll get it right and I’ll screw it up. But they’ve gone to bed or have lives or something.
1. A player files for free agency when his contract is up. I think.
2. Accepting or declining arbitration is a separate act altogether. But I think you have to accept or decline arby before filing for free agency. I think.
3. A player can’t choose to be traded, but he can always ask to be traded. In the case of Soriano, he would “choose” to be traded because we already know that if he asks to be, the Braves will certainly comply.
4. A player can, however, choose NOT to be traded under a few circumstances.
A. If he has a no-trade clause in his contract.
B. If a player has 10 years of MLB service with at least 5 years with his current team, he can also refuse a trade.
C. If a player accepts arbitration, he can refuse to be traded before June 1st.
I think. Any of that could be totally wrong.
So, with Soriano,
A. He is not yet a free agent.
B. He has been offered arbitration, which he has until midnight to accept or decline.
C. If he declines, he will then file for free agency.
D. If he accepts, he has a non-guaranteed* contract with the Braves. He can’t be traded without his consent before June. But it’s understood that he’ll want to be traded, and the Braves will want him gone.
Again, any or all of that could be miles off. Steve will clear it up for you in the morning.
Yikes indeed. Does that mean if he wants to stay with the Braves he can? But why would he knowing he won’t close. Thanks for the info…it is very helpful. Are you saying I have no life since I’m up at 11:46 waiting to be certain Soriano accepts this bogus arby deal?
You’re married. You have a no-life liscense. So, it’s cool.
Why would he, knowing he won’t close? Well, he’ll still close. For another team. If he really accepts, the assumption is that he doesn’t think he can do better in the FA market, money-wise than the Braves arby settlement. And he can still close with whatever team he gets traded to.
ok so he would accept the arby deal to lock down his salary knowing he will be traded for another team? Why are we freakishly up so late to see if he accepts or not? It doesn’t seem to make a difference?
It’s not good because paying 7 million bucks for your 6th-7th inning reliever is financial suicide if you’re trying to compete for less than 150 million. It would be like taking on Pujols’ salary to put him on your bench.
no clue on the Soriano thing. I’m really shocked. As Bub said, I guess he is trying to lock in at a higher salary knowing that the Braves are going to trade him. There must have been very little interest in him, at least none where he was going to make $8 mill a season. Bizarre. So now we get to wait and see if he will agree to the trade.
Right – the multi-year offers must not have been attractive. And Soriano figured, take the guaranteed 7+ million for a year, get traded (b/c the Braves don’t want to be saddled with his salary) to avoid being buried in a non-sexy 6th/7th inning role and end up on a team in a closer role, build up his stats, and look good again when he hits the free agent market next off-season. And, this way, the team that picks him up this year doesn’t have to give the Braves one of their first round picks. I hate Soriano now.
Leah – Did Bub answer your questions? Anything lingering?
I don’t even hate Soriano that much. All the sudden we have a desirable trade chip to add to the inevitable Lowe or Vazquez trade that’s coming. Aside from losing the 1st round pick compensation (which we can argue is a huge, or not, deal) we’re not really any worse off than we were.
Bub- what is the source of the Soriano sandbagging injuries rumors? i don’t see the logic in even trying to do that…as in if I want a raise at work, 6 months before review I really slack off but not enough to get fired…and then 3 and 2 months before review really pick up the pace so that I can get the promotion/raise…how does the boss not see through that? And think basically that I am an unreliable a-hat. So you fake injury in early season so you can take it easy…then burn rubber in second half? to me you are damaged goods…lowers your trade value…no?
Are there two Steves or is Stevie talking to himself again? Steve, Bub cleared up a lot for me but he gives me too much credit. I’m not as smart as he thinks I am. I’m still unclear on which players a club offers arbitration. Any player whose contract is up or do they have to be a free agent? If a player is hired as a free agent for a multi-year contract does the player have to approve any trade in the middle of said contract? Maybe if you can attach players to certain situations I’ll understand better. I’m sure when I hear the answers my questions will seem silly but I’m just a simple minded girl with a MS education.
Now that o re-read Bub’s answer I think he did answer all the questions I asked. Last year Frenchy was offered arbitration right? Was he a free agent? Does every player become a free agent when his contract is up? Just when I think I understand I get confused again. I think I belong on the facebook group feed…oy vey.
Will, did you just ask me for a source? I almost spit my coffee laughing.
Actually, I thought that it was here that I heard the players had questioned this mantle concerning that weird, lingering injury of … season before last? Something? Also, someone close to his doctor supposedly leaked him as a hypochondriac who’s scared of his money evaporating.
As for the limited logic of pulling such a caper, yeah, I’m with you. But the way it was put to me, it did make some sense. But I can translate/remember it. That’s the trouble with libel & heresay.
Anyway, no, no source. So, scratch it. I should have been more responsible.
Then again, I have officially and permanently assassinated his character deep in my funky mind because he’s caused my team an inconvenience. Once you cross that line… you’re just a dirty bastid with no heart for the game.
Hate’s a strong word, but I have never really thought Soriano was a team player. DOB loosened me up toward him a little with that quote … what was he said in an elevator? “When we win, I’ll smile.” But now I’m not buying it.
He’s too cool for school. Like Loaf. Don’t like it. One. Bit.
I wish Wren would catch a big break soon. I really do think his heart is in the right place and his overall strategy is sound.
Bub, I was re-reading past comments from months ago (because I’m lame) and I saw where you stopped commenting on DOB’s blog b/c you were tired of always being the funny guy. I take back comment # 74. Don’t go!
I said that? I’m not surprised. I mean, sometimes I’m funny and sometimes I ain’t. And honestly, I like being lame and not-funny at my own discretion, and also taking a jab at serious baseball sometimes. But over on DOB’s blog, my job as a comedian was like, talked about so much I couldn’t be myself. Plus DOB is ungracious as hell (sorry, it’s true), but I always felt tempted to win his favor, which made me feel slimey. So, there, a full confession.
But over here, nobody (but you) is all that impressed.
Yes, I’m drunk in the afternoon. In my defense, I just took my final final and I’m off for a full month! Woo Hoo!
lol, Wren says there’s an unidentified team that might trade for Lowe/Soriano. Wren, ya do the deal. If the trade piece is Corky Miller, you pull the trigger. Please, ‘fore we all have heart attacks around here.
Okay, a little warning about Twitter, folks. Yikes.
If anybody has your email address, but doesn’t know your full name, they WILL know your full name after you join Twitter. Does everybody already know this?
When you sign up, Twitter digs into your email account to tell you who all is in your contacts that is also a Twitter member. And THEN, if that person happens to have registered with Twitter under their full name (even though, of course, that isn’t revealed publicly, until NOW), Twitter will spit out the full name at you in their little “Blah Blah is also a member of twitter” message.
You’re probably safe then? I don’t know. Have somebody that you know, that has you in their email contacts, join twitter, and see if it rats you out to them.
Cuz, when I joined, I found out the last name of a girl who’s email addy I had from years ago – a baseball contact – and of course we didn’t exchange any real info. But Twitter is all like “Jane Smith is a twitterer” or whatever. And I’m like, Jane Smith? Is that the Jane S from the Braves board? And, yep, it is.
Out of curiosity (and future plans) I googled her and, knowing she was a school teacher, threw in a few indicators, and presto. I found her and where she works in three clicks.
Somebody needs to alert them to that immediately. Not everybody in someone’s email contact list is on a both-names basis.
Hey Bubs, the Twits are just not “me”. I’m ok with that. I am excited about the new ABT Show and all the talk about “SoreyArmo”(now that was a great line) and of course Wagner and Saito.
Where I diverge from the consensus on here is that I would keep LaRoche if at all possible. I think he can do the job and if you just want to save money by signing someone else, you won’t get what he can do. My opinion.
Cold rain falling tonight. Finding comfort in “69 days until pitchers and catchers report”!!
Oh, I want LaRoche. Have I not said that? That’s the exact 1b I want (I mean, that’s the realistic option I like best). I want an identity as a run-prevention team – that’s my newest gig, see. And his defense is swell.
Then, in the second half, blammo – he’s a slugger, too.
But, the bridge-to-freeman kind of contract doesn’t make much sense from LaRoche’s side, best I can tell. Plus Wren doesn’t seem hot on the idea. Maybe he’s just quiet. A two-year deal would be great, though, wouldn’t it? Then Freeman gets TOTALLY comfy before the big dance.
Freeman and Heyward have been mentioned in the same breath for some time now but I do believe that Freeman AND the Braves would benefit by holding him back for now. A two year deal for AL would take care of 1B, Adam, Chipper, Da Bravos and FF.
JC is cool..just you tubed some of his stuff. How about checking out Brenda Lee’s “Coming on Strong”. Great song and rendition. Go for the older rendition. “Memory’s of a Love gone Wrong, Baby coming on strong” Hope that doesn’t reflect on any “done” or coming up deals for the Bravisto Mens!! Night all.
Braves interested in Gload to replace Norton. Please, for the love of all that is holy, replace Norton. Would Wren really do business with the enemy to get Nick Swisher? Do we want Nick Swisher? Why did I pick “Hammy I’m too good for the message board” as my fav?
Oh, and in case you missed it…I want better than LaRoche.
Okay, Will, I really did strain my brain to find the right words to search out the Soriano thing, but it’s just not coming.
I did not make it up, and I didn’t file it away in the “Likely True” part of my brain because some blogger said it (unless they were quoting – it’s possible I believed a quote without a link, very possible). I think I heard or read it someplace somewhat legit. Braves players questioning his lingering injury/ surgery at some point.
Now, the guy-who-knew-Soriano’s-doctor hypochondriac part, that was just somebody saying that. But I think that’s the way I represented it.
Leah, if Chipper retires with Bobby, guess what 3B is a free agent next year?
Hint: He’s very, very beautiful, he joined the MLB as a third baseman, but currently is at first, and his name rhymes (approximately) with “Gormet Catfood.”
(Say, why aren’t we looking at him this year in a trade? 16 HR, .289 BA, and can fill in for Chipper AND man 1B – well, not at the same time… and then get an OF for your power bat.
AND THEN, if Chipper does go the way of the do-do this year, in 2011 move Gormet Catfood to 3rd, Freeman to 1B, and use Chipper’s salary relief to pick up a HUGE OF Bat. See… I’m alllllllways thinking…)
Soriano’s brilliant. He gets the high yearly AND he gets to choose which of these teams he says “yes” to, regardless of what’s being offered to the Braves. AND if the economy recovers, he can rack up next year.
Of course, in his (scant) defense, Wren DID limit his earnings by offering him arbitration so that his value went down with the draft pick business. So, I guess good for his agent. Actually, ingenious. The Braves offered arbitration to a player he had no intention of having on the team, and in return, the player accepted it having no intention of being on the team. Tit for tat.
I’m more nervous about not being able to dump him with each passing moment. Can a player be traded more than once in the offseason? Like LaRoche went to Yanksox and then came to Heaven’s favorite team this past season? What’s Rule 5? Is anyone tired of my questions? Please don’t create a whole new site and tell everyone but me.
there is a time period within which a guy can be traded only so many times. not sure the exact parameters.
Rule 5 is when there is a draft open to all teams of unprotected minor league players. Each team must submit a list of players they are protecting under Rule 5, then all the other teams can choose from the unprotected players. If a team has a player selected, they are allowed to pull back a certain number of unprotected players. A team can not lose more than 3 players. (I think it is 3). the caveate is that any player selected through Rule 5 must be on the opening day major league roster of the team by whom he was selected, otherwise he is sent back to the team from whence he came.
i think those are the highlights.
next, ask about the in-field fly rule, for Skip’s sake.
Soriano will be moved easily enough, I think, though I’m not looking for much return. Some GM will have visions of his nasty, filthy pitches just in time.
I have my doubts about Lowe, but I’ll be out of panic mode once Sorry-I-Know (heh, a wrinkle, see it?) hits the bricks.
Re: Would you folks agree with this sentiment?:
Even though the return on Soriano will be of less value the two draft picks, it’s still better to have Wagner and the return on Soriano – than Soriano and draft picks we lose for Wagner – for the same money. I think Wagner’s performance will be that much more reliable. And, Lord help me, I think Wagner’s competitive drive will be an improvement over Scowl-pal. AS LONG AS things are going well. And, they will be.
Yes Bub…I would be in the proverbial fetal position, brown satin sheets and all, without Wagner. So excited about the bullpen! I keep remembering a few shows back when a guest host, maybe Curt’s Phillies friend, commented on the trades gone wrong in the offseason allowing us to hold onto Yunel. He named a few other examples that I can’t think of but who knows how it will all flesh out.
You know something? EVERYBODY said to begin with that offering Soriano arbitration in this economy/market was crazy. The only reason we all jumped on board was because we trusted that Wren wouldn’t be stupid.
If this ends up going ugly, what are we to suppose about Sir Frank? Is he cosmically clumsy after all?
Re (that’s for you, Bub) the Soriano angst … this is from DOB’s blog this hour: “Soriano will be traded before we leave here tomorrow, I’m fairly sure. So yes, it could be today. Braves are motivated to get that done, get that part out of the way before they go home.”
So, did Wren screw up by offering Soriano arb? I don’t think you can argue that. Given that they did not want to keep him and had clearly eyed Wagner/Saito to replace him, it was the only move. And, to answer a question above, there will be more known about the prospect we get in the Soriano trade than for the complete unknown of the draft pick we’d have gotten for him if he’d accepted arb.
If I’m Wrathy-hell Story-oh-no, I’m thinking to myself, “would I rather face Boston and the Yankees in the 9th inning a bunch this year and hope THAT puts me in the business for a big contract next year? Or just take my chances adding little innings to my great existing resume here in Atlanta? Hmmm… are teams REALLY going to not notice that the reason I didn’t close was cuz Wagner was here? Why am I the devil?”
“To finalize a trade with the cash-strapped Rays, the Braves might have to consider paying a small portion of Soriano’s salary and receiving a better player or prospect than might otherwise be expected in such a deal.”
This Soriano thing is undoubtedly a mess and the Lowe trade will likely be weeks in the making, excruciatingly long, frankly – but, it’s all pretty interesting, don’t you think? We’re not standing pat. We’ve got a little money to play with. We’re not KC or Pittsburgh. This is the second straight off-season with lots of action, lots of twists and turns. I don’t have a huge point here, other than to say that I’m loving it!
“frankly” get it? So in the morning Soriano may go to the Rays per DOB. So is this a trade or just a purchase? I didn’t see another player named. Do the Rays have someone of interest to us? Do all you guys keep thousands of players names in your head or is that just Curt?
Bub, 5 minutes/hours/days is acceptable. Any longer and my name changes. Got it?
Leah – this is a trade. We send Soriano and his 7 – 8mil contract to the Rays. And we get Jess Chavez who may or may not see the light of day in the bullpen and his 400K contract. This is a salary dump, plain and simple. The guy we got back (so long as his salary was small and he has a pulse) was somewhat inconsequential. The Braves had to get rid of Soriano and his contract.
“Chavez hasn’t been overly impressive in his brief career, and might not be what some Braves fans expected to get in a trade for Soriano, who had 27 saves and 12.1 strikeouts per nine innings pitched last season.
But in this unusual case, the important thing for the Braves was really just to get something of value in return for shedding a salary that would not have fit into their payroll after they already filled the closer and setup roles with Wagner and Saito.”
Seems like the key on all of this, as Steve was saying, is that we didn’t have to pay any of Soriano’s salary.
I do need counseling no doubt. I’m definitely not going to miss “Wrathy-hell Story-oh-no”I just am nervous about filling the gaps in the lineup. I know it’s early. I’m trusting that you guys are right about this not being a complete disaster because a lot of people are saying it’s crap.
I honestly don’t know how this is a complete disaster. Based on the premise that not pursuing Soriano as a free agent was a good idea (an idea I wholly agree with: the dude had injury problems, lost pitch control at times and was a bit of a head case), then you either offer him arb or not. The general consensus around baseball (and according to the Elias rankings of type A free agents) was that he’d be a highly sought after commodity. So, you offer him arb. We’ve got a warm body in return for him. If we’d not offered him arb, we’d have nothing right now. Should Wren have held out longer on the trade and gotten something better? Should he have targeted a better player, but have to cover some of Soriano’s contract as a result? I think this went just fine. Get rid of him and his total contract and move on as expected.
Chavez is a right-handed reliever with a plus-plus change and velocity that sits in the 94-96 range. Thanks to that change he has a reverse platoon split, and is exceptional versus lefties. He figures to profile as a late inning reliever with the Rays, although he’s had issues with home runs which, if fixed, could really change the dynamic of his career arc. Whether that change actually occurs is up to Chavez and the Rays coaching staff to figure out….
From Soriano: “I chose salary arbitration because they had showed interest in keeping me. Then they said I was too expensive and that I wasn’t going to be their closer.”
I have a hard time believing this, the Braves indicated they were going to keep him part. To me, this is him trying to cover for his agent and he manipulating the system and subverting the diminished interest in him because teams did not want to give up a draft pick for him. I’m really back to desping him again.
I don’t like him, either, but the manipulation of the system, in this instance, begins with the Braves. They offered arbitration to a player they didn’t want. No matter what unspoken code is supposed to cover that, I can’t fault a player for trying to get around it.
Otherwise, the draft picks end up coming out of Soriano’s pocket, because you know the value of the DP’s are subtracted from any offer.
That said, he’s full of sh*t. I’m glad he’s gone. Truth? I never liked him.
Here’s what Bobby Cox said at the Winter Meetings, when asked if the Braves might be willing to go big dollars and sign Matt Holliday or Jason Bay:
“No, we are not in that bidding at all, no. We have a young kid by the name of Jason Hayward that just turned 20 in August that is maybe the top prospect in all of baseball. We’re going to give him a chance to compete for one of the outfield jobs.”
What the? We’re not signing Holliday/Bay = we’re not signing anybody? I know that can’t be what he means, but what’s the logic of that answer?
GREAT NEWS EVERYONE! I just came across a great website…http://www.bizofbaseball.com. It can answer all my silly chick questions so I won’t have to allow you all to see how uninformed I actually am! I’m going to seem so smart now!
Soriano sounds like an idiot in that quote. You don’t think anyone actually buys it do you? Even I would see through that smoke screen.
Jeff Francoeur, Kelly Johnson, Ryan Langerhans, Wilson Betemit, Brian McCann, Pete Orr, Brayan Pena, Andy Marte, Kyle Davies, Roman Colon, Blaine Boyer, Macay McBride, Anthony Lerew, Chuck James, Joey Devine, Jorge Vasquez, Frank Brooks, and Matt Childers.
They also resigned Moylan and Boone Logan. I’m thinking Logan will be a throw in on a trade. Young, cheap, relatively serviceable lefty. Those guys have value to teams. And they like this Hyde kid, so he could take his place.
I feel ya Bub. I agree…all kinds of love for Car Talk. See what we have to endure on a day when NOTHING good happens with the Bravos? Oh the insanity! Come on Frank! Give us something to talk about! Are you still enjoying The Avett Brothers?
Also, Tcc – as I know you’ll appreciate this – there is a moral undercurrent to that band that is really resonant, without being preachy. They seem to understand the confusion of trying to be good, etc.
I thought the rookie minimum was 250,000..whatever, I’m sure it’s changed.
Not my theory, but I agree that a player will always be paid on the current/going price for the best stats he produced in his career. In other words, a player who puts up big numbers in a given year will forever be seen as a guy who can duplicate that. So teams pick him up and pay him the going rate, assuming he will do it again. It’s kind of an insane way of doing business. Sometimes it even works!
During Fehr’s tenure as Executive Director, player salaries have increased more than tenfold. In 1983 (the last year before Fehr became Executive Director), the minimum salary for a Major League Baseball Player was $35,000 and the average salary was $289,000. This year (2009), the minimum is $400,000 and the average is more than $3.3 million
Leah, I don’t know that stuff. It was a miracle if any of the rules I explained the other day were even right. (I know some of it was wrong; for example, June 1st should have been June 16th. Or 15th. Something.)
NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW! NEW SHOW!
“In 2008 Terry Pendleton decided that he didn’t want Kelly Johnson (and I quote/paraphrase), “looking at so many called 3rd strikes”, so he messed with his approach a bit, which resulted in a lower walk rate.”
I remember this exact moment and screamed about it then. One of my favorite things about Kelly was watching him work a walk after a two-strike count. He wasn’t a guess-swinger. He had the eye, like Chipper.
Then along comes Terry Pendleton. The same do-do who didn’t want to “take away Francoeur’s aggressiveness” DID want to take away Kelly’s patience.
Kelly will prove the Pendleton Problem some year soon.
Thanks for the article, Leah. I had almost accidentally calmed down.
Just over two months until pitchers and catchers report. Bub, how many episodes of Car Talk will that be? Congrats on the puzzler..no small feat, but if you’re that smart can you tell me who the “Big Bat” is gonna be???
Seven shows in two days, Tcc. I now have a Boston accent.
No idea on the Big Bat. Nady, maybe, and hopefully a 1B back-up plan. Truly, no idea. I’ve lost track. The DeRosa and LaRoche (supposed) contracts are crazy talk.
My highest hopes at this point: Dump 2/3 of the Lowe money, snag a couple of medium-decent bats, and have some cash/leverage at the ASB after we see where we are with Heyward and all the pitching. Also curious to see if Prado can repeat.
Other high hopes: a crazy good year from McLouth, Heyward goes nuts (ROY), Hanson throws a no-no, Kawakami posts a 3.50, Wagner leads the NL in saves, Chipper hits 29 homers and bats .255, McCann hits 29 homers and bats .295 (mvp), Jurrjens wins 22 games (cy young), and Diaz has two separate 20 game hitting streaks. Braves pitching sets MLB record for games giving up less than three hits.
Kris – welcome to the board. It’s good to have you. I’ll get your link up shortly.
Bub – Nobody’s Fault But Mine is just so, so good. I don’t think it gets the love that it should. It should be Rock and Roll/Black Dog/All of My Love/Heatbreaker kind of big. And yet, no. And speaking of Zeppelin, I will now involve the board in my on-going campaign to generate more love for Out on the Tiles from Led Zeppelin III. How did that song not enter the Zep pantheon?
Sad about Kelly in many ways. Sad that he faltered so badly this past year, sad that no one wanted to trade for him and sad because he seems like a really good guy. Of the clubhouse interviews from last year, he was, hands down, the most honest, real and vulnerable guy I spoke to. And now that that’s over with, screw him and let’s get a big bat!
Steve, I’m yet a babe in the ways of Led. One of the absurd holes in my musical education. So I have no real albums (a Rock & Roll sin, I know), just Mothership and a CD of iTunes I brilliantly labeled “Led Z. Not on Mothership” with songs like Tangerine and that woman-who-won’t-be-true song. Really, I don’t know, beyond Kashmier and St*@$rw^y to H%$v#n, which songs are best loved.
FWIW, “Nobody’s Fault But Mine” threatens to be my favorite. I youtubed Out of the Tiles, and though I don’t qualify for your revolution, I dug it muchly.
We beat up on Lee pretty bad, & we beat Halladay with our #5. The Phillies are out of there ever loving mind. DO IT RUBEN AMARO. I DARE YOU!!!
IMO, they’re gonna lose more than they’ll gain. They’ll likely still have the most potent offense in the division…but they’re pitching staff will be a JOKE. We’ll probably beat the piss out of them in ’10, but we need to knock around the Marlins & the Nationals too!
I turn off the computer for a couple of hours and both Lackey and Halladay are looking to be gone. Very, very nice. The Lowe talk should now heat up like crazy. Dealt before Christmas? Quite possibly. And Bub, all the talk I’ve heard/seen is that the Phillies have to move Lee because they can’t afford both he and Halladay.
Bluesman, I like your confidence, but is it real or just bravado? You could argue that gaining Halladay and losing Lee is somewhat of an upgrade or even a wash. Now it depends if Happ goes or Drabek goes. Is Pedro back for the Phils next year? Probably not. Is Moyer back in the rotation? Doubtful. Getting rid of Happ would be a blow to the rotation, for sure.
Cameron to the Sox. That blows. I really, really wanted Cameron.
Could Yankees trade for Lowe?
Posted on: December 14, 2009 5:52 pm
Now that John Lackey is headed to the Red Sox, and now that Roy Halladay is headed to the Phillies, and now that Cliff Lee is headed to the Mariners, where does Derek Lowe go?
How about the Yankees?
The Yankees want a fourth starter to go with CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett and Andy Pettitte, and they have hitters who could interest the Braves. The two teams have talked, and while it’s not certain that a Lowe deal has been discussed, it would make sense.
Lowe also makes sense for the Angels, who have lost out on both Halladay and Lackey, their two top targets. Outfielder Juan Rivera would be “a nice start” to a package for Lowe, according to someone familiar with the two teams.
The Mariners have also shown interest in Lowe, but now that they are set to get Lee, they would seem to have less motivation to make a trade.
The Braves began the offseason exploring deals for either Lowe or Javier Vazquez, but sources said that they are now much more focused on dealing Lowe than Vazquez. Vazquez, in any case, would be a tough deal to make for the Angels, because of the pitcher’s strong preference to stay on the East Coast.
The Braves are willing to pay some of Lowe’s salary ($45 million over the next three years), depending on the players they get in the trade.
Well, with Matsui going to the Angels, they might have an extra outfielder. Sounds like he is going to be primarily their DH, but even still.
And, further word, is that Philly is losing Happ, Blanton and Dominic Brown, their top positional prospect, in this deal. BluesMan is right. Their pitching staff is going to be gutted. Who is going to start for them? They’ll have 2 guys. Halladay and Hamels coming off a horrible season. Lee is gone. Is Madson going to start? Are they going to sign someone like Ben Sheets? Is Moyer back? I’ll take the end result.
Curt, that talk is from hours ago, unless you’ve got something fresh. What talk do you have?
MLBTR has this as its latest:
10:12pm: Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun (via Twitter) has Toronto getting Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and Travis D’Arnaud; Philly getting Roy Halladay and Phillippe Aumont; and the Mariners getting Cliff Lee, plus another piece (or, pieces).
Sorry to miss such great chatter but I was helping a friend stay married. Not to mention the fact that December is eating me alive. If the Philly’s end up with Lee and Halliday I’m in my van down by the river partaking in a strong illegal substance and jumping in said river.
Bub, do you just look at different Twitter pages or do you have an account? Cause, I haven’t recieved a follow request from you…I’m sure it’s some sort of electronic delay. I get it…you’re afraid the Rev will kick your ass. Between you and me, I think you could take him.
(If you have an account and you’re afraid I’m a crazy phsycho lady just pretend you don’t even know what it means to tweet.)
The Phillies will be unstoppable if they somehow keep Lee and add Halladay. Even if Atlanta’s rotation matches theirs in ERA over the year cuz of our depth, those hitters will put them way ahead. Not only that, but while Atlanta’s rotation is built for winning a division/ wild card, a Lee-Halladay combo would be built for postseason domination, where the first and second starters are the most important pieces of your team.
Would be bad, bad news. Atlanta could still capture the wild card, but Philly would win 105 games and be post-season beasts. The Phils would fall back to earth in 2011 when Lee jets, and the Heyward-Hanson-Jurrjens trifecta should enter its full strength then, but who wants to wait another year? Say NO to Lee-Halladay.
Leah, I might could take the Rev, but his Boss is another story. We’ll figure out the tweet bid’ness when I get back. Going to make the family rounds the next few days.
Hey gang – Sorry for being away, looks like I have missed some good talk. A couple of things. . . .
- We are planning a show for Sunday. Message received. Lots to talk about, including my getting to hold both of the Red Sox world series trophies and meeting Sam Kennedy, COO of said Red Sox. Pretty cool. Also pretty funny watching the couple of Cubs fans in attendance staying as far away as possible while still looking longingly at them.
- I think that Zep III is one of the best/most under-rated albums by them. Since I’ve Been Loving You is one of the greatest rock/blues songs of all time. Celebration Day. Tangerine. Out on the Tiles. Amazing record.
- I love Physical Graffiti though. In the Light is a HOF rock song. Ten Years Gone is also quite good. In My Time of Dying. Quite a few others.
“I take it kind of personal,” Lowe said. “Noboby made them give me a four-year, $60 million contract. There wasn’t a ransom or anybody holding a gun to their heads. It was a negotiation and that’s what they viewed as fair. I would have never even considered going there if I knew that ultimately this was going to happen.”
Freaking loser. He stunk up the joint for 15 biggie-large. Hush up and move on. You think you’d have ever been hired if the Braves “knew that ultimately this was going to happen”? Just two different this’s, that’s all.
No, Tcc, he isn’t any good. I’m mad at him. He stinks. His 15 wins were all supported by eleven runs or more, and sometimes he was awarded a win even though the Braves lost. He is a stinky, dirty bum who can’t throw anything but a fit.
(Miller High Life commercials are good. Miller High Life beer is bad.)
Dude needs to shut his pie hole or no one’s going to want him. I thought he was from Cali. Shouldn’t he be hopeful in a potential trade close to home? Like say the Padres (fingers crossed so hard they’re cramping)? Is there any validity to the theory that trading Lowe after one year other free agents would think twice about coming to Atl?
Does anyone know about toilets that run every few minutes? Just a little bit and very much on it’s own. I may throw it out the window before the night i over.
lol, this I found on the MLB site, some guy called Yakuzafro:
Wren needs to go have a heart to heart with Lowe.
“Derrie, you were given lot of money to throw lot of baseball. You baseball go up up and over fence fence. We need bat, k? You not bat. Already 4 pitcher better than you in rotation, so you go fly fly over to the Angels.”
Alright, I’m done. It’s safe to play now. G’night.
Leah – I am susbscribing to the “it’s quiet, too quiet” opinion as well. Something big is brewing.
And, agreed on Lowe. Very immature and very off-putting. “I would have never even considered going there if I knew that ultimately this was going to happen.” C’mon, Derek. You went with the money and a team that had a shot.
Man, I would like to punch Derek Lowe in his fat mouth. Do you know what a bad position he has put Atlanta in now? Teams go into talks knowing we pretty much have to get rid of him or else deal with a disgruntled veteran. We’re officially over a damn barrel now, if we weren’t before.
DAMNIT I’m mad at him. I cannot STAND when player pull this crap.
Lowe + Teheran to the Yankees for Swisher or to the Angels for Rivera. That might be the only way out of this horrible jackpot without paying gobs of Lowe’s salary.
p.s. +1 to Frank Wren for not being interested in Derek Lowe (remember?) at the beginning of last offseason. It’s too bad we got so desperate.
PLEASE let the Angels get as desperate as we were.
That lineup looks pretty good, especially when you compare with last year’s starters. For the record, I wasn’t even allowed to wear makeup when Bull Durham was made. Curtis shouldn’t mess with the simple minded while so frazzeled by the stress of the offseason.
Bub, I think you are just venting the impatience we all feel. I’m trying to wait and see what all you smarty pants think before I form an opinion. That’s just how I roll. I’m learning but still don’t have a clue and am very confused half the time. It seems like we should just go ahead and give the damn trophy to the Yankees anyway. I HATE the Yankees and all they stand for. How’s that for harsh?
Leah, I don’t think the Yankees will be able to buy championships every year. The very best baseball team vs. the second best baseball team, no matter the gap between them, is only gonna come out in favor of the best team in a 7-game series a slight majority of the time, if the trends hold.
BUT, across a 162 game season, yeah, the Yankees (and R. Sox) absolutely can buy complete domination. So, it hurts the A.L. East worse than anybody – thank goodness both those teams play in the same division. It also hurts the American league wild card hopefuls.
Basically, in the American League, there is wild card (Yanks or Sox every time, if the Sox keep up their spending, which they will). And also, in the American League, there is no Eastern Division. Rays, Orioles, Blue Jays; forget about it. They ain’t winning nothing no time soon (triple negative = still negative).
The punishment the Yanksox inflict on the National League is limited*: whatever team we send to the big show, they will be at a slight-to-medium disadvantage in a 7 game tilt. So, in the years that we win it, it’ll just be more satisfying.
ALSO, there will be years when the Yanksox fail to reach the World Series, even after winning 105 games or whatever – just the nature of 5 & 7 game sets. And in those years, it’ll be Even Steven.
*…well, they also snag all the Free Agents, but who cares as long as they rob us all in a somewhat equal rhythm, which they do.
Ive been in Scotland and London this week and am finally logging on . just feel like sharing that I was watching the telly in my hotel and there was football ( soccer), cricket, the darts world championship, and get this – competitive sheep dogs. ( collies chasing sheep around a field).
If your going to talk about LaRoche, here is a quote from him: (On the no contact from the Braves) “Guess I should have hit .400 while I was there.”
That comment upsets me a little more than Lowe’s. Frank Wren must be awful with negotiating with FA. Maybe he should start with LaRoche just to see his asking price, and if we can bring it down a little. I have no problem giving him a 3 year deal. Freeman shouldn’t be up here until 2011, I’d like him to be up here in 2012. Then in the 2012 season he start the season with LaRoche and Freeman.
I don’t know about a 3 year deal for Rochey. I want the kid at first way before then. I’ll go crazy if we’re watching Adam watch strikes wiz by for the first half of the season. I think Frank is getting set up for his big move. Listening to interviews during the winter meetings confirmed in my mind he knows what we need and we know he will put feelngs aside to get it. Plus that man just had great hair. He’s like the sleeping giant with McDreamy type hair.
Giants finished a few games ahead of the Braves, if they sign Adam LaRoche, I will be pissed. I knew the Braves were the 4th best team in the NL last year, problem was their team only got 85 games, while Phillies, Rockies, Dodgers, got about 150. he third place finish really left a bad taste in my mouth.
I don’t know where this fits in here, so, whatever!
Looking forward to the next ABT podcast tomorrow. So, what do you guys think about the future of Freddie Freeman? How soon do you think he will be ready? I think that’s the big question in whether to resign LaRoche. AL won’t take a one year deal but he might take two. I think FF will take that long to be ready for the bigs. Is there a chance to sign LaRoche for 2 years or will he insist on 3?
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine Corona bottles, and that’s without peeking in the trash can. In the future I don’t want to wake up to nine bottles unless there’s a bra hanging from a lamp post.
On second thought, no. Nine bottles and a bra could be bad, bad news.
At any rate, the Yankees clearly don’t have the trio market cornered. To listen to Sabathia, the world has forgotten them.
“They don’t give us enough credit, I don’t think,” Sabathia said this week, following the Lackey signing. “Everybody keeps talking about Boston now, Seattle now with Cliff and Felix [Hernandez], but I think we’ve got some pretty good guys in our clubhouse that can match up with anybody.
And Go Jackets! Gonna sit down with some Fellinis pizza and some cold beer and watch the game. In ATL for Xmas with the famdamly. Spent literally the past day on a plane – 10.5 hrs london to tokyo then 14hrs tokyo to ATL. Dont ask. Had a shower at least in the airport in Tokyo…but I am one mangy pooch right now. So far have not contracted swine flu, only indigestion. Looking forward to 10 days of 300 cable channels and mom cooking.
And a new show….yes, a new show post Tech Victory!
Not surprised about Chip/A-rod. We usually have nothing but love and respect for ESPN here … yet I can see why they would rate A-Rod higher. Chipper/Braves havent had the better decade than A-Rod/Yanks.
Steve, I download the show from itunes so I can listen on my ipod, but there is a delay factor. Sometimes itunes seems quick to have your show, sometimes it’s like 24 hours or more. What’s the process?
Tcc – the iTunes sweep process is inconsistent. I typically get the show posted to our website sometime between 11pm and midnight, ET. iTunes then “sees it” as a result of some periodic check to our site. I have no idea about the timing or the schedule. I’ve seen it up there an hour after I post sometimes. Sorry not to be more help.
Man, no way. I feel two inches tall for my part in it tonight. That dude’s gonna end up running down the street throwing gasoline bombs at windows, screaming “fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive miiiiiiilllllion eeeeeeeeeeaten hahahahahahahahaaaa!”